Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravager
[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Also, why should failure count? I've certainly never been rewarded for any of my failures.
|
Because you need the failure to learn the encounter. Without the failures you will never win. And saying you are not rewarded for failures is also a lie. If you are not failing you are not pushing yourself hard enough. The reward for trying hard things and failing, repeatedly, is typically the learning you need to do to move higher and get those phat loot rewards. The people who put in the time to learn are carrying those who don't, and should be rewarded for it.
Another interesting point is that Raev brought up and in the context of random drift due to high variability of /random. Although in the long term random processes can work, in the short term they can drift massively. Now imagine that interaction with censoring effects that cut out parts of the distribution, like when people leave guilds or quit EQ or, because they just happened to get all the stuff they need, they stop showing up as much. In other words, yes random is 'flat' in an ideal setting, but it's not systematically flat, and for short periods it can drift. DKP tries (though it also fails I'm sure) to create a distribution that is flat systematically, like each person gets (1 x unit of effort) in order, rather than 1 person gets 10, another person gets 3, another person gets 0, and then over time waiting for that to balance out to flat. Especially problematic when that person who got 10 stops showing up cuz they don't need anything, or maybe just because he got bored of EQ.
But again, all these examples are just to say that random has a lot of issues too, and especially so in a system that has the structure of EQ, where people change guilds or leave EQ, loot quality changes with time, some people can get their gear all in one raid while others have to get one piece from each dungeon, the amount of loot per hour can change for a given dungeon, and can be as low as 0 loot per hour, etc. If you convolve a crazy ass function with the flat function of uniform random, you get a crazy ass function in return, not a flat one.
Maybe you don't think failure should be rewarded - but I do, and I think it should be rewarded more so than just showing up to farming raids because it's more difficult and is what leads to the success later on - the farming is not leading to the success. Maybe you don't care that due to variability someone got 10 things in 3 raids then vanished, but I do. And I also don't want to wait a year for the distribution to get flat given the variability it has, I want to systematically force it to be as flat as I can, because people leave EQ or the guild over that time period and loot quality also changes during that time period so at any given snapshot in time you may have massive gear differences, even the 'number' of loots is the same in the long term. Maybe you don't want to incentivize specific behaviors like going to raids even though no loot is there to be had for you, but I do. So you can use /random if you want but I will always prefer DKP - and if you note, the stuff I list are things that are aligned with raiding guilds, for which DKP is often needed to encourage and reward behaviors tied to fast progression, rather than leaving it up to hope that people will be self-motivated enough to work as hard toward that.
And to your point about DKP being about cheating - I'm not sure if you've ever ran a DKP system yourself, but I have, and let me tell you it is super annoying especially at the time on live when we had to remember to take the right logs in the right way during hectic new encounters, copy paste them in the system correctly, fix any errors, deal with adjusting stuff that has been bought, sit around taking bids (our system wasn't DKP it was a custom bidding system). It was just a massive headache and basically any time it was my turn to run it for a raid that was easily 50% of what I did during that raid. Loot upgrades too quickly in progression guilds for this time commitment to develop and run a DKP system just to poach a few extra loots for yourself to be worth it.
12-03-2016, 02:01 PM
Linear Mode
