Does damage create hate?

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by xKoopa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dolalin, why would a warrior not getting hit or getting hit for less damage affect his aggro generation? Ignoring procs, its potential dmg per swing that generates aggro

If you have a war and a monk with same ratio weps/stats, the monk will outaggro because of higher skill caps resulting in more swings

Every swing regardless of hit/miss generates a flat amount of aggro dependent on what the max possible hit was


At least this is how it was always explained to me, feel free to correct me if wrong

This is exactly his point. Defensive/evasive lower damage done by (as well as to) warriors but this lowered damage has no obvious effect on their aggro.
He is using the disc to show that it is swings, not actual damage, that matter.

[Dreenk317]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is exactly his point. Defensive/evasive lower damage done by (as well as to) warriors but this lowered damage has no obvious effect on their aggro.
He is using the disc to show that it is swings, not actual damage, that matter.

I've always had it explained like this to me. Very simply put, one swing (hit or miss) generates one point of agro. I used to know a warrior on live back in the day that dreamed of 1 damage 5 delay weapon that would allow to him out agro everyone.

[lurk]

I find that Melee attack swing increses Hate by value of Damage + Damage Bonus. STR, ATK, DEX or Weapon Skill do not affect to Hate, so increased Hate is affected only by Weapon's DMG and Damage Bonus. There is no difference between Same level WAR / PAL / RNG classes, but caster class will make small Hate, because caster has no Damage Bonus. For melee class, Damage Bonus is changed by level, so increased Hate is changed by level, too. There is no Damage Bonus for Left Hand Weapon, so Left Hand Weapon increases fewer Hate than Right Hand Weapon

In depth agro tests, beyond era but still should be accurate


http://giline.versus.jp/shiden/melee_e.htm

[xKoopa]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is exactly his point. Defensive/evasive lower damage done by (as well as to) warriors but this lowered damage has no obvious effect on their aggro.
He is using the disc to show that it is swings, not actual damage, that matter.

Ok, that makes sense. I wasn't aware the discs lowered damage output

[Fragged]

Originally Posted by lurk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I find that Melee attack swing increses Hate by value of Damage + Damage Bonus. STR, ATK, DEX or Weapon Skill do not affect to Hate, so increased Hate is affected only by Weapon's DMG and Damage Bonus. There is no difference between Same level WAR / PAL / RNG classes, but caster class will make small Hate, because caster has no Damage Bonus. For melee class, Damage Bonus is changed by level, so increased Hate is changed by level, too. There is no Damage Bonus for Left Hand Weapon, so Left Hand Weapon increases fewer Hate than Right Hand Weapon

In depth agro tests, beyond era but still should be accurate


http://giline.versus.jp/shiden/melee_e.htm

White dmg is king of agro.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by Fragged [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

White dmg is king of agro.

false

It is swings modified by weapon base damage stat and level damage bonus, not hits nor damage amounts, that determines melee agro.

On any given swing you can miss, you can crit/crip, you can hit for 1 or 10 or 100, it's all the same agro.

This is about agro generated by ordinary melee attacks. Spells, including procs, and BackStab are different. Monk special kicks might be different, I have seen no agro data on them.

A L40 warrior with a jade mace mainhand will generate [(9*2)+5] agro per swing, if double attack fires he'll have 2 swings and generate twice the agro.

Off-hand gets no damage bonus. Bards, Priests, Casters, & any sub-27 char also get no damage bonus. With no bonus the agro generated is just double the base damage of the weapon. Off-hand weapons generate agro only when dual wield fires, no agro unless you actually swing the weapon.

There is a modifier for 2H weapon agro, it might be 0.7. If the 0.7 modifier is correct, a L25 warrior wielding a Staff of Battle will generate [((31*2)*0.7)] agro per swing.

Compare these swing values to the 1/1 agro for a dd proc (so the 80hp lifetap on Bloodpoint is +80 agro), and the ~ 400 agro for a stun (so the ykesha proc is ~ 400+75 agro). Dunno if anybody has parsed agro for other debuffs here (like the one on Frostbringer), but on live they were similar to stun (maybe a bit less, can't recall). At any rate the Frostbringer proc here seems to me approximately correct in its extra agro.

[Fragged]

Interesting.

[Ransurian]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

false

It is swings modified by weapon base damage stat and level damage bonus, not hits nor damage amounts, that determines melee agro.

On any given swing you can miss, you can crit/crip, you can hit for 1 or 10 or 100, it's all the same agro.

This is about agro generated by ordinary melee attacks. Spells, including procs, and BackStab are different. Monk special kicks might be different, I have seen no agro data on them.

A L40 warrior with a jade mace mainhand will generate [(9*2)+5] agro per swing, if double attack fires he'll have 2 swings and generate twice the agro.

Off-hand gets no damage bonus. Bards, Priests, Casters, & any sub-27 char also get no damage bonus. With no bonus the agro generated is just double the base damage of the weapon. Off-hand weapons generate agro only when dual wield fires, no agro unless you actually swing the weapon.

There is a modifier for 2H weapon agro, it might be 0.7. If the 0.7 modifier is correct, a L25 warrior wielding a Staff of Battle will generate [((31*2)*0.7)] agro per swing.

Compare these swing values to the 1/1 agro for a dd proc (so the 80hp lifetap on Bloodpoint is +80 agro), and the ~ 400 agro for a stun (so the ykesha proc is ~ 400+75 agro). Dunno if anybody has parsed agro for other debuffs here (like the one on Frostbringer), but on live they were similar to stun (maybe a bit less, can't recall). At any rate the Frostbringer proc here seems to me approximately correct in its extra agro.

I don't believe there's a 2H modifier in terms of aggro. I hold aggro with my axe of lost souls better than I do with lammy / GJB, even when I'm getting tons of double attacks and DW procs. In fact, I was routinely stealing and holding aggro from a warrior using wurmslayer / green jade mace in a group the other day while using my axe, and he was using SCHW. At the time, I didn't have a haste item. Something to think about.