What is the hardest dungeon in the game?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by AgentEpilot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Coulda swore it is the nerfed one we have, unless it went through another nerf on live at some point.

It did go through two revamps of some sort, but the first was minor (I forget the changes but there were only a couple). However, when someone mentioned the first one in a ticket the staff replied with something to the effect of "the first one is so small and the second one comes soon after, so we may not even bother implementing the first one" ... so here on P99 there might only be one.

I'm honestly not sure if they've implemented that one yet or not. If I had to guess I'd say not, because the "safe spot" marked on the map in the wiki has a walrus in it (but I'm guessing post-nerf it doesn't).

EDIT
This is the bug post I referred to: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ighlight=siren

[mickmoranis]

Look at it like this.

take all the mechanics in SG and all the mechanics in HS, make the mobs hit for the same, make them all HT the same, make them have all the same MR resists.

Which zone would be more difficult? The one that has 8 no rent keys for 99% of the zone? or the one where you can use water and dry land to expoit pathing, faction, and no keys at all?

one of those zones will end catastrophic log off naked failure and the other will result in some nice chap waltzing up to your corpses, draggin them back and then u all having another go at it.

HS > SG by far

Just because SG is broken and designed poorly doesnt mean its a harder zone, its just a broken zone with terrible mob stats that make it a waste of anyones time, not to mention the loot is pretty shit, you aint going to be leaving there with some treasure to sell from a PUG

[Triiz]

Originally Posted by mickmoranis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

sure HS is a great zone for you, but dude watch a group of 6 go in there, and watch them warp out naked and then not know what to do for days without help from other high level players or a GM

What kind of group of 6 is this? Do they not have a rogue or necro? Seems unlikely. There's a bank a 1 min run away that anyone can use to store CR stuff in. A hard CR and a hard dungeon is two completely different things imo. A hard CR in HS is easily circumvented by inviting a rogue or a necro to the group also known as being prepared.

SG isn't empty because the loot sucks, a 150-200k best in slot drum drops there and a 70k belt drops there, Seahorse hide cloak from your list drops in Kedge. How many other zones can a small group that knows what they're doing walk out with a single item worth 150k (price was closer to 250k and was still empty) if they're lucky?

Every single mob in HS can be solo'd by a 60 enchanter, that is definitely not true of SG

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EDIT
This is the bug post I referred to: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ighlight=siren

That post from Telin is from June, we are definitely in pre-nerf SG atm. The fact it was nerfed very quickly on live to be more "group friendly" just reinforces that it's the hardest dungeon in the game.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by mickmoranis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the difference between HS and every other zone is, once you die, you stand around and go... uh what now? we have no possible way of getting our corpses 'as normal human beings who play a video game'...

This is just being lazy or bad, not "normal." It's not level 10 in crushbone. It's not level 35 in overthere. Just because you can't run directly to your body without invis, maybe needing to dodge a pather or two, and rez in a guaranteed safe spot, doesn't mean it's out of reach for a normal player.

1. Double invis
2. Monks, necros, shadowknights
3. Dying above tunnels
4. Rogues
5. Tricks (stalking probes, corpsed keys)
6. Friends; alts in convenient locations
7. Fighting back in


But enough about CRs. CRs are supposed to be a small part of what a remotely-competent group does. Even if I conceded, arguendo, that CRs in HS are harder... what of the majority of the time when you aren't CRing, but actually fighting?

At 60 in HS you're doing south or east. Fighting level 49-55 mobs that hit for 136-160. There's a necro here or there casting spells. Maybe half the mobs you pull can harmtouch for around 500. Resists are normal. Pulls are regularly 2-3 mobs at a time, biggest maybe 5-6 without legit training yourself. Pathing isn't bad.

At 60 in SG, you get to exploit water clearing aggro (if fighting mobs from the water, anyway), though it isn't always a get-out-of-jail-free card. The typical mobs you're fighting do stuff like: buff themselves with cleric HP buffs, cast 70% haste on all mobs within range, double backstab for 800, hit for 230-280ish, resist slow after tash 3-4 times in a row (or more)... even if they are the same level as stuff in HS. The tougher mobs are like killing a higher-level vox/nagafen. Pathing sucks. Swimming can be a pain. Pulls might be single regularly, but they can be 3+ too (have fun keeping stuff rooted or even sticking mezzes).

Originally Posted by mickmoranis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Remember folks 1000+ hours expereince doent mean the zone is easy, it means you are expereinced in it.

This doesn't work in your favor. If I spent 1000+ hours in SG, would I be soloing icy servants regularly? Breaking the rooms of sirens to kill a named one? Able to gate out, make a corpse, then run back in to my camp quickly enough to loot a lore item off a corpse? No.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by mickmoranis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

its damn pretty zone

We agree on this though, lol.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by mickmoranis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look at it like this.

take all the mechanics in SG and all the mechanics in HS, make the mobs hit for the same, make them all HT the same, make them have all the same MR resists.

Which zone would be more difficult? The one that has 8 no rent keys for 99% of the zone? or the one where you can use water and dry land to expoit pathing, faction, and no keys at all?

one of those zones will end catastrophic log off naked failure and the other will result in some nice chap waltzing up to your corpses, draggin them back and then u all having another go at it.

HS > SG by far

Just because SG is broken and designed poorly doesnt mean its a harder zone, its just a broken zone with terrible mob stats that make it a waste of anyones time, not to mention the loot is pretty shit, you aint going to be leaving there with some treasure to sell from a PUG

This is nonsense, man. "If we normalize all the dungeons, which one is hardest?" isn't the title of the thread or what the OP talks about. He talks about appropriate level and gear of the group.

If you wanted to do that, Kerra Isle would be the worst. Have you ever seen that fucking zone? Imagine it full of level 50-55 rangers, shamans, clerics, wizards... with all the pathers running around with sow and blinds/roots/snares/dots/heals/slows... all fully shaman buffed? Lol. Only mitigating factor would be outdoors so harmony pulls.

That'd be fun though, considering what different dungeons would play out like if you scaled their levels. Kerra or kurns at 55? Seb at 20? Haha.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Triiz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What kind of group of 6 is this? Do they not have a rogue or necro? Seems unlikely. There's a bank a 1 min run away that anyone can use to store CR stuff in. A hard CR and a hard dungeon is two completely different things imo. A hard CR in HS is easily circumvented by inviting a rogue or a necro to the group also known as being prepared.

SG isn't empty because the loot sucks, a 150-200k best in slot drum drops there and a 70k belt drops there, Seahorse hide cloak from your list drops in Kedge. How many other zones can a small group that knows what they're doing walk out with a single item worth 150k (price was closer to 250k and was still empty) if they're lucky?

Every single mob in HS can be solo'd by a 60 enchanter, that is definitely not true of SG



That post from Telin is from June, we are definitely in pre-nerf SG atm. The fact it was nerfed very quickly on live to be more "group friendly" just reinforces that it's the hardest dungeon in the game.

I was thinking all of this too when he said SG had trash for loots. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[branamil]

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I mean you have a bunch of mid 50s mobs that are unmezzable except by rapture. Lull will fail. You don't have any room to feign pull, and plus they're casters. You're guaranteed to get at least 5-7 adds that with full cleric and enchanter buffs. If you're luck only one icy servant will come. You would probably need 3 groups to take this room. In fact it's probably not even fair to group SG as a "dungeon". You might be able to pick off a few loners with a group but it's basically a raid zone.

[skarlorn]

Seb at twenty is upper guk, tecmos!

[mickmoranis]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is nonsense, man. "If we normalize all the dungeons, which one is hardest?" isn't the title of the thread or what the OP talks about. He talks about appropriate level and gear of the group.

If you wanted to do that, Kerra Isle would be the worst. Have you ever seen that fucking zone? Imagine it full of level 50-55 rangers, shamans, clerics, wizards... with all the pathers running around with sow and blinds/roots/snares/dots/heals/slows... all fully shaman buffed? Lol. Only mitigating factor would be outdoors so harmony pulls.

That'd be fun though, considering what different dungeons would play out like if you scaled their levels. Kerra or kurns at 55? Seb at 20? Haha.

who whoa whoa cool your jets man, lets not turn this into who can nerd rage the quickest, I want to just try to discuss it, i know its easy to heh.

But seriously, I would say, kerra isle, if it were a level 60 dungeon, WOULD be the hardest dungeon in the game.

Simply put even if you took 6 people who raid NTOV to HS that have never once leveled with eachother and said, ok here is a dungeon you have 2 days to get through it and get all the loot.

I think they'd do better in SG then they would in HS, barring the fact that some loot is just not 'gettable' becuse its not group loot in SG... SG is really more of a mini raid zone, not a group zone, hs is a pug group zone, not a mini raid zone.

I think they woudl discover that HS is WAY harder becuse of shit they were not excpecting...

RE-traversing each wing realizing they need keys they dont have, wipe, then realizing they need to retrieve there corpses naked or that the rogue is dead becuse they didnt know some biles see invis and some dont.

Traps, reseting progress in EACH WING

Idiots pulling 3 adds and wiping the group cus of HT's

That shit doesnt happen in SG, I have never seen someone accidientaly wipe a group in SG and I have in virtually every pug in HS