#1
|
|||||||||
|
P99 should have a +Mana cap and revised Base Mana Formula
Below is a summary of this thread, I'll PM a mod to modify the original post and change the title! Let me know what you think:
Summary of +Mana Cap: The +mana cap for P99 was not main stream knowledge until after Luclin hit and the percentage of mana you had was displayed. Afterwards, a post was made from a high end raider revealing his testing methods to determine a cap was indeed in place. At which point Devs faced some revolt from the masses and did some damage control. Here is Rich Waters' explanation of the cap: 8/9/2002: http://rift.zam.com/story.html?story=1083 Quote:
http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020814.html Quote:
Thanks Jaxon!! So we gather from that thread, that during that Luclin era the effective cap on your mana pool was 4,164. I do want to touch base quickly on the client vs. server formula for mana. It would appear that the formula for this was server side limitation (much like we find from Cinda's Charismatic Carillon thread which showed there was a server side cap on the faction for this spell regardless of the SPDAT file). Mana was purposely not shown in the client to keep it 'mysterious' per the original dev team, with client's being cracked and analyzed I'm not surprised they would keep the cap formula server side. Back to Jaxon's post, there was an interesting blurb I picked up on that thread: Quote:
4/5/2000: https://web.archive.org/web/20010822...ve/arc96.shtml Quote:
https://web.archive.org/web/20010822...ve/arc87.shtml Quote:
Summary of Mana Formula changes: So... it may seem like P99 should have an effective max cap on your mana of 4164, right? WRONG! As Raev and Daldaen had pointed out, it would appear that P99 is using a Luclin formula for calculating mana... Daldaen summed it up nicely below: http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20011204.html 12/4/2001 (Luclin launches) Quote:
Meaning it occurred 8 months after the above patch which changed the calculation of 200-255 WIS/INT to Mana. The classic value seems to have been 1 Mana per 1 WIS/INT. The Luclin one 6 sticks in my mind but 5 fits the numbers more easily. This means the level 60 calculation is: Classic = 12 Mana per WIS 0-200, 1 Mana per WIS 201-255. Max WIS based Mana = 2455 Max +Mana = 1228 Total Max Worn Mana = 3683. Luclin = 12.5 Mana per WIS 0-200, 5 Mana per WIS 201-255. Max WIS based Mana = 2775 Max +Mana = 1388 Total Max Worn Mana = 4163 (4164... rounding error probably) --------------- I did notice through some postings that there were 'alternate' classic formulas posted, so not sure which is the true formula (a little birdie told me Haynar knows...). My post listing those values is here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...6&postcount=66 So possible 3,862 would be the max unbuffed mana pool obtained on P99, or perhaps 3,683 per Daldaen. Lastly, Jaxon did find that the showEQ formula obtaining those numbers were the Luclin era calculation, and not the classic mana formula, his post on that summary is here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...7&postcount=64 Conclusion: I find this all to be very compelling evidence for a +mana cap and a mana formula revision, major changes require significant evidence and I feel that has been delivered here. It may certainly explain a lot how testing fights against Tunare / AoW in Velious Beta was making easier fights than expected. It would seem there was a lot more mana available for CHeal chains, spot heals, twitches, etc. I understand re-balancing that content with these formulas may be difficult and time consuming, but I say go ahead and implement! Most P99ers have already trivialized the encounters, this will just make them more of a challenge until the ATK values, etc can be dialed in. It may also encourage grouping with more members as all players will be taking a hit to their mana pool. Thank you for your consideration! #Classic
__________________
Wedar - Level 60 Grandmaster <Azure Guard>
Check out my Zone Guide to The Hole The Hole wiki now fully updated and accurate: Hole Wiki Page | ||||||||
Last edited by Llandris; 07-10-2018 at 11:51 AM..
|
#2
|
|||
|
Bump... thread seems to show some definitive proof this cap existed, this could have great game changing dynamics for P99 end-gamers (may cause some tears, but... classic).
Dev comment..? Considering? Need more evidence? Not doable on P99 due to client?
__________________
Wedar - Level 60 Grandmaster <Azure Guard>
Check out my Zone Guide to The Hole The Hole wiki now fully updated and accurate: Hole Wiki Page | ||
#3
|
|||
|
There is a primary stat softcap at 200, hardcap at 255. I don't think there has ever been a cap on secondary stats.
| ||
#4
|
||||
|
Quote:
Personally I don't believe a hard cap on mana pool or hit points ever existed. Well...we were probably capped to 32,000 in the pre-Velious era for the same reason monsters were but that was a moot point. We have somewhat higher mana pools on P1999 due to the different way Wisdom behaves past 200 on P99 relative to Live. Danth | |||
#5
|
|||
|
It did exist, it was confirmed by Rich Waters, a developer for EQ. Here is his post on the subject... upon further reading it seems like the precise mana cap is 4126.
http://rift.zam.com/story.html?story=1083
__________________
Wedar - Level 60 Grandmaster <Azure Guard>
Check out my Zone Guide to The Hole The Hole wiki now fully updated and accurate: Hole Wiki Page | ||
#6
|
||||||
|
Some bolded quotes from that link, straight from Rich Waters:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Wedar - Level 60 Grandmaster <Azure Guard>
Check out my Zone Guide to The Hole The Hole wiki now fully updated and accurate: Hole Wiki Page | |||||
Last edited by Rygar; 11-15-2017 at 09:36 AM..
|
#7
|
||||
|
Quote:
Secondly, it wasn't the expectation that people would get full BiS in Velious, you've had 2 years as an end gamer on a lower population server than live with poopsocked content and zone-line insta pulls and aren't even full BiS. No one could realistically deck that far out. I'm sorry, but all evidence points to this 4126 being the cap on mana, I think it should be put in place and eventually have the 201-255 mana corrected so gear choices can become a bit more apparent. Having +300 mana over the old cap is nearly an additional Complete Heal or Nature's Touch, an additional Lure for a Wizard, an extra 1.5 torpors for a Shaman, etc. Just think of it as the same as mana gains from consuming 2 Mod Rods... that could make a difference in some long fights like AoW or 'low number engages'.
__________________
Wedar - Level 60 Grandmaster <Azure Guard>
Check out my Zone Guide to The Hole The Hole wiki now fully updated and accurate: Hole Wiki Page | |||
#8
|
|||
|
Solid evidence up in this thread.
Fixing this and the 201-255 WIS/INT returns would be extremely classic. Removing the ability for your Mana value to be displayed in your UI though would reach unparalleled levels of immersion.
__________________
| ||
#9
|
|||
|
Absor Station Admin posted 08-09-2002 12:20 PM One additional clarification: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This change just affects + Mana items. We didn't change the way a players mana is calculated from intelligence or wisdom, and we're happy with how that part of the system works. - Rich
This thread/subject came up in Luclin era. Maybe the cap wasn't noticed until gear from that expansion? If mana from wis/int is calculated wrong, I'd rather see that worked on personally. | ||
Last edited by Raavak; 11-15-2017 at 02:51 PM..
|
#10
|
||||
|
Quote:
I'm no dev so I don't know the difficulties in getting int/wis mana to calculate properly (just look at the nightmare that is displaying proper AC values). Maybe there is some client issue or a complicated thing to work on. Either way, the number of the cap could be a good fix for now if there aren't any client issues doing so. People will still reach the cap easier than they could have in Velious until wis/int mana is fixed, but won't have 300 - 600 additional mana than they could have.
__________________
Wedar - Level 60 Grandmaster <Azure Guard>
Check out my Zone Guide to The Hole The Hole wiki now fully updated and accurate: Hole Wiki Page | |||
|
|