<Aftermath> to join AEGIS Alliance

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Mblake81 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would rather lose a thousand pixels and be trained by the most retarded looking neckbeard screaming "git gud" than have an instanced MMO. WTF is the point, content is only part of the battle and you have cut out the other. Just unhook the comp from the internet and call it a day.

You clearly have some strong feelings on the topic; ) But look, I never said "P99 should do instances", and I don't believe that it should.

What I said/believe is that back in '99 guilds were not racing for anything. Even the top guild on the server did top content (for the most part at least) on their own time. Club Fu on Bristlebane (mostly) didn't "race" Arch Overseers. They just recruited more/better players, engaged more PvE content, and beat more of it. This resulted in them having more pixels than AO and "dominating the server", but in an incredibly different way from how Aftermath or TMO does on P99.

Now of course per capita we have like a million more raiders than live did, and of course every last one of them has about a million times more knowledge than anyone did back in '99. It's impossible to recreate the classic experience by just doing things the way people did them in classic.

But look, just because there was the "live way", and there's the way P99 has done things for a decade, that doesn't mean those are the only two options!

There's absolutely a third possibility: instances. And a fourth possibility: rotations. And then there's likely 5th through 22nd possibilities also (without even getting into the hundred specific different ways either instances or rotations or anything else could be implemented).

All I'm saying is, we've tried the race for ten years, and it doesn't produce classic results. If we tried literally anything else we have a better chance of getting classic EQ raiding.

And if you don't care about making things more classic, then here's another thing: the current P99 system is not fun for most people. Almost any other system could be more fun.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Nexii [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem with racing is all the ridiculous and convoluted custom non-classic rules around it. It does nothing in the way of allowing more guilds to compete nor reducing the amount of socking that goes on. You might as well just allow guilds to camp out wherever they like. There were never any rules on live about where players could camp out.

Exactly ... except I'm thinking just a little bigger than "eliminate race starting points".

It feels like we're all thinking in a box, like the only way things can possibly be is to have races and race lines and race rules and race everything.

This server is full of intelligent and creative people. I find it offensive that every last one of them turns off that intelligence and creativity and just accepts that things are the way they are, when using even a fraction of that collective intelligence/creativity could almost certainly produce a better system.

[loramin]

P.S. By the way, I think a huge part of "the box" around everyone's thinking isn't R&N: it's the players. Whenever anyone suggests anything that isn't races, everyone in RnF dog piles on them.

Of course we'll never even manage to brainstorm a decent idea, let alone work out a functional system, in such an environment. We need threads where people throw out ideas, then other people riff off them and say "that's not bad, but what if we did ..."

As long as all we do is tear each others' ideas down seconds after they get proposed, we'll never get anything better here.

[mycoolrausch]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P.S. By the way, I think a huge part of "the box" around everyone's thinking isn't R&N: it's the players. Whenever anyone suggests anything that isn't races, everyone in RnF dog piles on them.

Of course we'll never even manage to brainstorm a decent idea, let alone work out a functional system, in such an environment. We need threads where people throw out ideas, then other people riff off them and say "that's not bad, but what if we did ..."

As long as all we do is tear each others' ideas down seconds after they get proposed, we'll never get anything better here.

If you want to raid, join Riot. If you don't want to join Riot, play classic WoW and raid with your own guild on your own time, the way every other game in the world works.

[Mblake81]

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Originally Posted by mycoolrausch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I consider instancing a necessity but I consider p99 a museum piece and put up with its bad design and quirks for that reason.

Certainly there is no game I would play in the future if my choices were join a zerg guild that creates a virtual instance for itself, or stand around and chip off 1 out of 30 targets per week or w/e. I only put up with it here. Out of love.

I despise the 20 years of "gaming" since era. Playing with other people made trivial by every Kids console under the tree. Made even more trivial by smart phones.

When I log into TOV on repop weekend and see all the people. I haven't lost what really matters here.

I could care less about new games, they suck and so do the people who support their mediocrity. I would rather sit here, like I have since 2011 getting shit for loots and not really caring about raids until a couple years ago rather than fudge around in some rehashed unimaginative drivel that is riddled with MTX and supported by the same loons. Keep that stuff so I know where to avoid the plague.

[loramin]

Two posts hating on new games and talking about how great old EQ used to be ...

... while (implicitly) defending a race system that never existed back in '99-0'01, and is entirely a new addition, added over a decade later.

Makes perfect sense.

[mycoolrausch]

Originally Posted by Mblake81 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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I despise the 20 years of "gaming" since era. Playing with other people made trivial by every Kids console under the tree. Made even more trivial by smart phones.

When I log into TOV on repop weekend and see all the people. I haven't lost what really matters here.

I could care less about new games, they suck and so do the people who support their mediocrity. I would rather sit here, like I have since 2011 getting shit for loots and not really caring about raids until a couple years ago rather than fudge around in some rehashed unimaginative drivel that is riddled with MTX and supported by the same loons. Keep that stuff so I know where to avoid the plague.

One day there will be a good challenging MMO again that appeals to hardcore players. Whether it's instanced or not I don't know, but what I do know is there wont be a sizeable competent raid force standing around with literally nothing to do because all the content was already consumed by somebody else. Nobody would make a game like that, because it is stupid, and the original Everquest in its classic timeline wasn't really like that either because of the lag in player development as new content was constantly coming out each year. It's unique to this server.

[Jonabis]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly ... except I'm thinking just a little bigger than "eliminate race starting points".

It feels like we're all thinking in a box, like the only way things can possibly be is to have races and race lines and race rules and race everything.

This server is full of intelligent and creative people. I find it offensive that every last one of them turns off that intelligence and creativity and just accepts that things are the way they are, when using even a fraction of that collective intelligence/creativity could almost certainly produce a better system.

I have said this before and it seems like a no brainer. Remove raid mob respawns from the game. Have 5-6 quakes a month randomly for 7 day spawns and 9-10 mini quakes each month for 3 day spawns. This eliminates the waiting around poop socking, race line rockstars, and overall lack of content for smaller guilds as raid mob respaws windows spread out. Quakes are the only time this server sees anything close to healthy target distribution. End the madness, save the beards from those necks.

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by mycoolrausch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you want to raid, join Riot. If you don't want to join Riot, play classic WoW and raid with your own guild on your own time, the way every other game in the world works.

Riot didn't spontaneously form. PS didn't want to zerg. Core didn't want to zerg. I can't speak for CSG. I was pushing for them to zerg though..I watched Venerates original leadership fail trying and get so frustrated they left for Agnar of all the god awful places (I miss the real Gogre). You can't just waltz up with your porridge bowl asking for more pixels. You must take it, to do so you gotta have the strength.

I have had guilds with members I really liked to hang out with die off because a few key members hopped ship to get their pixels. They couldn't do it any other way. Negotiations will net you 1 mob per cycle. One that has terrible loot as well. I have watched the guys in Riot setup an elaborate (for a game) system in order to get this. Frankly I would have laughed my ass off in era but that is the standard here. Make it or break it and I have been on both ends.

AFAIK no riot members have been dicking around in any other guilds forums, if so I can't vouch for that. AM is (what is left) our rival. The shit slinging has been between us and the random anons here on the forums that wanna jump in, they do so by their own choice in a subforum that has a warning on it. When AM dies and the loons head to WoW.. well who knows. Maybe there will not be a need for a zerg. I don't know what the future holds nor do I really care.

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by mycoolrausch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Whether it's instanced or not I don't know, but what I do know is there wont be a sizeable competent raid force standing around with literally nothing to do because all the content was already consumed by somebody else. Nobody would make a game like that, because it is stupid, and the original Everquest in its classic timeline wasn't really like that either because of the lag in player development as new content was constantly coming out each year. It's unique to this server.

Sure, unique to P99. We are all playing it as well. Its dumb, stupid, absurd and whatever title you want to attach. Ex players come in and shit all over it but they never leave the forums.

Maybe that dumb shit is good. Fuck college video game degree designers.