Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this

[strawman]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

no evidence

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Wurl [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually, I've presented some interesting arguments and links in this thread and made no demands. You're demanding that things stay the same.

It seems like your comments relate to invis and whether or not you can control charmed pets (the latter post reading more like someone who simply had no clue how to control a pet (no pet window remember?) and assumed it operated like a regular Enchanter pet).

Maybe I missed a post where you provided evidence that Charm broke way more frequently on live than it does on P99? Which was the general argument that people were having on this thread.

[Bazia]

Originally Posted by Bazia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

nothing classic about being in HHK and theres two charming enchanters in gob basement 2 charming enchanters clearing first floor guards a high level charm enchanter soloing second floor guards
another charming enchanter soloing nobles and yes even another charming enchanter and mage duo clearing third and fourth floor

shits getting stupid real quick

[DMN]

I already posted in this thread and gave my 2 cents, I think a lot of the magic system is more forgiving in P99. Tis issue is not unique for enchanters, but all casters benefit from it. Mages being the only ones kinda of out of the loop, with no CC whatsoever.

Enchanters didn't get played often in the charming capacity at least until kunark, A big part of the reason was lack of mobs. You'd often be only holding on top 3-4 mobs as your "camp". Everything was overcamped, even stuff hat had garbage drops mostly.

One thing you learned in vanilla EQ after you have figured the basics of the game out pretty much, a "veteran" so to speak, was that the thing most likely to kill you was an unlikely series of events. This meant that players and groups heavily used often times less efficient strategies but safer. more consistent strategies. They preferred mez to root because mez was 100% for sure duration. They preferred snare to root because again 100% duration when it lands. Charming and certainly weaponizing/hasting the charm would throw a giant risk that could tip the scales out of most players comfort zones.

When kunark arrived and enchanters had more elbow room, then it become quite obvious how effectively they could solo, though this solo capability had a decent amount of risk attached to it. It's not just like they had god mode or something.

Additionally people wanting an uber solo class back then all went to play necros, not enchanters which tended to attract people more interested in group play.

Bu like i said, i still think the magic system is little too rigged in players favor. as a recent example, I've been messing around with my enchanter on green. On original EQ if I cast an enchanter DD spell on myself I'd flat out resist it at least 50% of the time. I've now cast it at least 100 times on green and not once has it been resisted, partially or fully.

[Onadan]

I have no evidence but chiming in that, in general, the random chance of spell breaking before its time seems too low. Invis lasts forever, root lasts forever, and it sounds like charm lasts forever as well.

[Rooj]

Originally Posted by Onadan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have no evidence but chiming in that, in general, the random chance of spell breaking before its time seems too low. Invis lasts forever, root lasts forever, and it sounds like charm lasts forever as well.

Once I learned invis I ran my Enchanter from Akanon to Qeynos, and recently from Qeynos to Highkeep to buy some Enchanter spells. Was pretty baffled by the duration of invis. Definitely didn't feel right.

Also, still waiting on some parses. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Don't be afraid!

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I (still) can't lifetap raid bosses. Your classic arguments are invalid. Non-classic changes are made when the project admins deem it necessary. For folks who dislike current Enchanter power, continuing to visibly and loudy complain is the best way to eventually bring the admins around to such a change (ie, keep it up). As the recent experience with the pet window demonstrated, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Danth

The Ivandyr's Hoop nerf still baffles me: rather than simply removing the lifetap effect from the item (which is otherwise just a middling piece of stat gear) the devs entirely removed the ability of all lifetaps to land on raid mobs. Enormous unclassic nerf to Necros and SKs rather than simply removing the effect from the earring. I never understood that one.

More generally, I think that all impartial observers and players (meaning anyone who doesn't main an Enchanter and even many who do) can at this point agree that Charm is producing an extremely unclassic effect on the server. Even if we grant that the mechanics of charm are actually approximating their classic state (which is far from certain), the widespread adoption of charm soloing has resulted in a player experience that is far from what most people remember from classic EQ. Boxing was classic, Bard swarming was classic and Chardok AOE was classic. The former was banned from the get-go on this project because the devs recognized that boxing, while classic, would result in thoroughly unclassic gameplay on an emulated server with free accounts and easy two-boxing. Over time, the devs recognized the same was true about Bard swarming and Chardok AOE. Both possible with classic mechanics, both producing wildly unclassic server effects when exploited by many players.

I hope they will recognize that the current state of Charm is in a similar position. It is being exploited to trivialize the content of the game in every level range. Playing an Enchanter after playing any other class literally feels like switching on God mode, and that's entirely due to Charm. Because the fact is that even WITHOUT Charm, Enchanters would STILL arguably be the most powerful class in the game, due to the strength of their buffs, debuffs and surprisingly powerful animations. When you combine that with the ability to charm mobs that allow Enchanters to out-tank and out DPS (and even heal, with memblur) every other class, it simply becomes absurd. People want to play EverQuest, not EnchanterQuest.

[winter888]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Respectfully, you completely ignored what I wrote.

I gave the example of Bard's AoEing, and how there was similarly no evidence that there was anything unclassic whatsoever about the mechanics. So if your argument is "there must be classic mechanic proof to fix anything", then you're essentially arguing for Bards to still take every mob in OT, and I reject your argument.

My argument is, EVEN THOUGH there was no classic mechanic, a simple "gut check" could tell anyone who played on live that P99 had something wrong. Bards on live did not monopoilze The Overthere, and it was very much NOT just because "players were dumb in '99". When the staff fixed that, using an unclassic mechanic, it made the server overall more classic.

I honestly don't know whether the charm resists here are right or not, and again no one truly does. But what I do know is that no one remembers Enchanter charm being like this on live: regardless of classic evidence, it fails the "gut check".

When something like that is massively different here, anyone who wants things to be "like 1999" has to honestly ask themself: could this difference truly be explained with just player ignorance? And I think anyone being honest has to answer "no", which implies that a correction (classic or unclassic) is needed to make this place more classic.

For the reason of EXP panalty and DPS/HEAL ability, every exp group's composition will be prefered of war/clr/rog/monk etc. That's classic, but not classic feeling. And from your point ,shall devs nerf rog/monk's dps? cleric's heal ability? war's tankbility? of whose ability are already been exploited and trivialized our classic feeling by most P99 players. You guys surely remmembered the classic group and raid composition of classic EQ was kaleidoscopic,DONT U?

Every one on this server has a Monk alt,dont we?
Every one on this server has a Cleric alt,dont we?
Every one on this server has a Rog alt,dont we? (at least you know the way how to do dps/corpse works ,when being needed ,you can PH a guild 60 rog).

So let's nerf them with enchanter TOGETHER. Those all are not classic feeling.

[Dolalin]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...9&postcount=52

This is, I think, a much larger impact for CHA on charm duration than was shown in the classic tests I linked earlier, isn't it?

Compare that with the classic tests: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=295

It's not even close, CHA shouldn't be having that much of an impact here.

[Nirgon]

AoW was killed twice mid-to-late Velious by the joint forces of Legacy of Steel and Shock of Swords on the Nameless. This was accomplished by charming "Frozen Moses" aka Fjokar Frozenshard.

if charm wasn't reliable, how did this happen?

good day to you sirs