Teams PvP confirmed by Rogean, transcript of convo..

[Gustoo]

Any fresh box would be fun.

I don't think +-4 pvp range without item loot is the best system. The no item loot with no level range system seems like a worthwhile experiment for the next generation system. The custom box teams proposed a year or two ago seems like a worthwhile experiment for the next generation system. Both of these changes are in line with classic EQ values.

Seems like it could be fun and worth trying.

[Gustoo]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

in a game like EQ there will always be people camping players for pvp at rare spawns if not manastone it would be something like the FBSS @ frenzy or the helm from lord or one of the sola camps.

Those items never get pulled from the game. They can be permenently poopsocked but they never become a lifelong investment in your EQ career like a manastone does and moreso the bind affinity item from kunark. These are significant game changing items and they should either be in the game or out of the game. We made the decision not to allow zero cast time pumice in the game because it is too awesome, why would we leave the pixel rot items in the game. I know that the game is supported by the people with pixel rot frenzy and who are hoping to RMT to pay their bills but it would be nice to launch an EQ classic timeline server that avoids the sickness.

Bind at pots is either always on or always off
Manabone always on or always off.

so on

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I hope teams is better. I believe people who will do it care, have been involved in red, and will have learned from the last few years.

I dont. What the devs need here, for years, is brutally honest, uninvested feedback. What they were getting from those Nihilum poopsockers for example, was tainted feedback. They knew xp loss made it so that no one could challenge them in raid zones strictly because of their numbers which meant they won without even having to fight for it 95% of the times. So they told the staff everything was fine, although it was bad for the server. Same story with the griefers, they had fun making people quit, so they also told staff everything was fine. It was not hard to figure out what was going on though, if the devs mod had time / cared about it, minimally.

Heres some more out of touch snippets:

"Hence why we're not going to just wipe the red server.. we've gone on record that unless it's declared ahead of time before the server opens, you'll never lose your chars"

Again more proof Rogean just doesnt get pvpers. When he moves my 60 shaman on blue (if i still played) thats the end of my character. I played pvp classic, i played pvp emus, i play pvp. Pretty sure thats the story of most people who roll on red. Thats just like deleting the characters. Not that i am against it, but it is what it is.

"needs to be teams.. it's the only way to protect the newer / isolated players
otherwise you get one guild strong arming everyone"

Nothing will stop a bored lone griefer druid to port in and out of newb zones to grief them. It will be easier than ever to grief newer/isolated players when you can literally one shot them before they know what happened. These are the players without a solid guild starting out, lagging behind in levels, just feeling their way around who will get shit on 24/7 by Cast-type players. Its just a repeat of red's launch, like i said, its just comical to read some of that chat.

He has some interesting ideas (like how seasonal servers could be fun to try different rulesets) but i think its time for Rogean to have a bit of humility and just accept hes just not good at getting a hang of what works in pvp. Listen to people like Angwe (forgot his dev name here), have some serious post where people pick apart the potential flaws for different server setups and actually read and think about them.

To be clear im not against a teams server, but these issues have to be addressed before the server is launched, with solutions thought through or it will just be a tragi-comedy thing all over again.

[magnetaress]

Fair enough.

[Danger]

Love that this thread is still going strong and its brought in some posters who are not regulars on red forumquest. We can have a mental circle jerk about hypothetical mechanics and rules and do autopsies on why red99 died, as many already have, but ultimately for this discussion to be productive whatsoever we need some feedback from Rogean and/or Nilbog.

Now, Dulu and I spoke with Rogean a bit during our "PVP Crusade" event we held last week. I personally found it very encouraging.. at least initially. Rogean (as seen in the transcripts) stated he had some ideas he wanted to lay out in a forum post, nilbog said Rogean "can't stop talking about" pvp ideas previously.

Rogean doesn't owe me anything, I get that. But if he can't be bothered to write a forum post of ideas then I'm not overly confident in his willingness to devote the free time to developing a new server. (I genuinely hope I’m proven wrong here)

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We've derived countless hours of free entertainment from this Project, and I know members of the PVP community "make it really hard [for Rogean] to give a shit about [us]" (paraphrasing Rogean from the now deleted Lite thread), especially the vocal minority that posts here, but the total lack of communication is part of why some people here have the opinion of Rogean that they do.

It's been years since the dev team engaged in a substantive manner on Red or PVP so asking for a forum post or a little communication isn't being overly demanding imo.

[White_knight]

Heard Rogean cant stop talking about this that he had an over the dinner table discussion with his spouse about his plans.

She found it a very romantic notion to talk about his PvP server plans and apparently encourgaged him to progress on his ideas.

[Sear]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Heres some more out of touch snippets:

"Hence why we're not going to just wipe the red server.. we've gone on record that unless it's declared ahead of time before the server opens, you'll never lose your chars"

They're in between a rock and a hard place with this. The "never delete your characters" thing is to maintain trust and integrity. I get it, even though I think the playerbase would accept it after ten years of server uptime.

My philosophy was to wipe VZTZ after one guild "won" the server, cleared every PvE thing, and people were gearing their 19th alt with BIS items. The fresh grind and competition of a server launch is the fun part for a lot of people, especially on red servers imo. It was a ghetto seasonal server approach before that became a thing.

He has some interesting ideas (like how seasonal servers could be fun to try different rulesets) but i think its time for Rogean to have a bit of humility and just accept hes just not good at getting a hang of what works in pvp. Listen to people like Angwe (forgot his dev name here), have some serious post where people pick apart the potential flaws for different server setups and actually read and think about them.

Angwe = Null. Does he still post here?

You're never going to please everyone. The raiding neckbeards want Kunark dropped two weeks after a vanilla launch while casual pvp'ers want the opposite of that. There's always a lot of noise and bitching to sift through.

[magnetaress]

Personally if Exp and drop rates are classic & there isn't a lot of cheating. I would prefer it stay classic for a year, move to kunark. For a year. Then merge to red or blue for velious. Rinse, repeat.

I would enjoy item loot but no one new will appreciate it. So I don't think it's possible.

[Gustoo]

I disagree about no one new appreciating item loot.

Scary stuff is fun. Losing items is scary.

HOWEVER at this point I wouldn't mind seeing teams tried so it can be behind us, or maybe work out and everyone loves it.

With 2 custom teams and sullon zek rules, we would have to hope that people that farm lowbies on opposing team just get corpse camped by enemy team once they are caught. Its a good way to have tit for tat PVP where high levels get to interact in non raid scenarios.

Worst case is that the people with high levels only log for raids and don't give a shit what goes on during non raid hours. Some people will be like that.

I really think a classic timeline NON legacy server would be the most fun. I think there is a special type of toxic in the rush to get manastones that we've seen on green/teal

Live servers like live Discord did not have legacy items and they were still fun. It would also emphasize that fact that this server is not about establishing a pixel hoard in the same way as other servers.

I wouldn't even be opposed to leaving manastone and other legacy items in game permanently but with an insane rare random drop rate from basically any monster or something wild like that. Or that they are obtainable from an in-game casino which also helps with plat inflation.

I think that this next server could be a test bed for some of those concepts as long as they are active at making the pvp situation make sense.

[Stasis01]

Even if you get the right mechanics and rule set, the community is so invested with their egos that people will stack it and just play safe making it stale.

Let the dream die.