[Serious] Lets talk Top raiding guilds and their behavior

[Duckwalk]

Have you considered that it might be in Riot/AG/Freedom's interest to have Kittens or other guilds bound by the same rules as they are? By denying Kittens and other raiding guilds the chance at any imput in this aren't you just guaranteeing a situation that incentivizes people / guilds being as disruptive as possible until the guides step in, ban everyone again, and THEN include them in negotiations?

Also, L-O-L at the insinsuation that Kittens are bad faith negotiatiors in this thing. Some people just live in an alternate reality I guess.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Duckwalk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Have you considered that it might be in Riot/AG/Freedom's interest to have Kittens or other guilds bound by the same rules as they are? By denying Kittens and other raiding guilds the chance at any imput in this aren't you just guaranteeing a situation that incentivizes people / guilds being as disruptive as possible until the guides step in, ban everyone again, and THEN include them in negotiations?

Also, L-O-L at the insinsuation that Kittens are bad faith negotiatiors in this thing. Some people just live in an alternate reality I guess.

If they are making server rules you would be bound if you wanted or not. Player agreements you wouldn't be. They want server rules as a backup incase player agreements fail for whatever reason. I'm not saying if it's right or wrong but GM wants them to hash it , not like it's much choice.

[Xulia]

Originally Posted by Dreenk317 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact that freedom and ag ally together for kills, does not mean freedom isn't competing. You think I care if riot allies with kittens? Not at all. So why is this such a big sticking point? And I never said freedom solo killed vulak, ever. I did say they have been a part of competitive vulak

Except we don’t ally with Kittens in every target because we can take down targets like AOW, Tunare, and Vulak alone. Freedom can’t. And the fact that they’re being given a say in how fights they can’t complete as one guild is the problem; that means Freedom is only getting a say in this because they’ve been that much of an issue and not because they’re competitive as a single entity. You’re just loud.

[Duckwalk]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If they are making server rules you would be bound if you wanted or not. Player agreements you wouldn't be. They want server rules as a backup incase player agreements fail for whatever reason. I'm not saying if it's right or wrong but GM wants them to hash it , not like it's much choice.

We'll see how that plays out. My understanding is Riot/Ag/Freedom are making rules between themselves to reduced the toxicity of server in general. Their exclusion of Kittens and everyone else in the process by defintion means those guilds are not bound. Seems like its just going to create more problems in the long run.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Duckwalk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We'll see how that plays out. My understanding is Riot/Ag/Freedom are making rules between themselves to reduced the toxicity of server in general. Their exclusion of Kittens and everyone else in the process by defintion means those guilds are not bound. Seems like its just going to create more problems in the long run.

Either way GMs want it this way

[reznor_]

Originally Posted by Ghost of Starman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Kittens has been getting stronger and stronger and can tackle almost all the content on the server solo at primetime except maybe Tunare / AoW, it's just that the neckbeard guilds have bigger zergs, especially during the off hours, and have more no-lifers willing to push the boundaries, whereas Kittens follow the rules almost to a fault at times and will concede at the drop of a hat.

The only thing that will fix the current situation is either an enforced rotation on end game content or instancing of end game raid zones, that's really all the can be done, any other solutions have proven to be temporary and become abandoned once the more aggressive neckbeards break off and form new guilds which nullify prior agreements. Its an endless cycle until the GMs / server management decides to finally go with the permanent solutions.

Kittens is strong, we’ve done raids with them in the past and they have some stellar players. However, their interpretation of “competitive” is unique.

[Duckwalk]

Originally Posted by reznor_ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Kittens is strong, we’ve done raids with them in the past and they have some stellar players. However, their interpretation of “competitive” is unique.

The only real difference anyone has been able to identify between Kittens and the "raiding guilds" is a refusal to sock natural respawns. Kittens races for mobs late in window. They're right there in the mix taking down NToV mobs on EQ.

Maybe we should re-evaluted this ridiculous idea that "competition" is contigent upon who can stare at an empty screen the longest? It is that idea of competition that has gotten us to a place of 170+ man zergs and "alliances" and eventually bans afterall.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Duckwalk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only real difference anyone has been able to identify between Kittens and the "raiding guilds" is a refusal to sock natural respawns. Kittens races for mobs late in window. They're right there in the mix taking down NToV mobs on EQ.

Maybe we should re-evaluted this ridiculous idea that "competition" is contigent upon who can stare at an empty screen the longest? It is that idea of competition that has gotten us to a place of 170+ man zergs and "alliances" and eventually bans afterall.

I think the issue is you aren’t there week in and out creating petitions. You may think you are competing and I think you guys do awesome. But if you aren’t there creating the petitions and they want to solve this. Then what you think competition is doesn’t matter. All that matters is fixing the issue with the guilds that are present during this sock time you don’t like to be in.

[xdrcfrx]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the issue is you aren’t there week in and out creating petitions. You may think you are competing and I think you guys do awesome. But if you aren’t there creating the petitions and they want to solve this. Then what you think competition is doesn’t matter. All that matters is fixing the issue with the guilds that are present during this sock time you don’t like to be in.

If we're there, but not creating petitions, aren't we doing it correctly then? Seems like the overabundance of petitions is why the three guilds were suspended in the first place.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by xdrcfrx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If we're there, but not creating petitions, aren't we doing it correctly then? Seems like the overabundance of petitions is why the three guilds were suspended in the first place.

Probably but like he said, you are there at opportunistic times and quakes not week in and out. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing don’t take it wrong just what GMs are trying to fix.