Riot kites then kills KT. Surprised no free Vulak after wiping on free attempt.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by tacomagradd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Klaz was behind the entire raid and yet they still bee lined to him. Sure they killed people sitting along the way.

These two statements immediately contradict each other. Did they bee line to Klaz or did they kill other raiders first? It's not both.

Originally Posted by tacomagradd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If we'd trained ourselves, Klaz wouldn't have agro. The mobs would have no reason to go straight for him.

When you log in to a zone, you are assigned a new GUID when added to the table of players in the zone. NPCs will aggro the player with the highest GUID when no players have threat and there are multiple players in range.

[Kaitainz]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No need. You won't link it because it doesn't actually show what you want it to show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuTFbTn4SY8

The assist at 1:40 puts the train on Hoyi. Gif is a convenient edit that starts after at least half a dozen Kittens/Riot are already killed by the train. If the aggro bounces to Klaz, it could easily mean that his FD was broken and he was the most recent to log in.

Since you obviously dont raid, when a necro FD's, and mobs are near ANYONE, and they are KoS, they will go after anyone. Maybe take a look and notice that once said necro FD's, they then go after a new player... btw, this could all be cleared up with said necro's Fraps... I mean.... Lets have Furoar interview him like he interviewed that great puller in Kael that made a video a week earlier of how to pull in kael, then said that was his first time ever pulling in Kael as his defense.. that was a fucking gem now...

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Foxplay [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1:40-142: Vulak guards after social aggroing trash drakes at bottom of ramps come up the ramp, Fresh aggro messages on the social aggro'd mobs go out just as they reach the top of the ramp, prior to killing anyone this is indicative of dropped aggro, the rest of the train then social assists off of these new aggros and will prove this in the next video PoV

The assist is on Hoyi.

[Kaitainz]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The assist is on Hoyi.

Let me break this down for you barney style you absolute imbecile, or are you playing like a full retard, you never go full retard. The assist was after the new agro message, after the necro FD'ed. Maybe you should go watch the fucking video, slow it down real slow for your dumb ass and then try and understand, instead of playing mental gymnastics with yourself. Know what happens when a monk or SK or necro FD's successfuly, with pissed off mobs coming at him and now in range of other people? They go to kill the new people that they just found. its FUCKING amazing. Now, when dumbshit necro stands to get the hell out of dodge, for being a fucking wanker, guess what EVERY FUCKING mob around there does.. they go to murder his dumb ass. Know what this means shit for brains? It means he had the HIGHEST agro.

Now why was a necro FD in the back of an opposing raid force, btw, which was NO WHERE NEAR his own fucking raid.. so why was he even here in the first place... but lets ask that question in the next paragraph.

Why did he run up the ramp, to an opposing raids area.. with another kiter who had agro.. and brought said mobs up towards the t op of the ramp, and this necro, just happen to run behind this opposing raid force, all the while agro. Why did this necro not just /q like EVERY FUCKING FD class knows you MUST do to clear agro on any mobs that have agro on you that are not stationary position mobs. Lets now get to the meat and potatoes boys and girls. Why did he run there in the first place all the while having agro on Vulaks guards, and subsequently, everything else they come across. Why not /q at at triples all by yourself in the safe space you CoTH into... 0 reason to run up the ramp with a fellow kiter into an opposing forces area, no where near your own, unless, just maybe, your either a moron, or you planned on bringing mobs to slow/stop the opposing force from being able to engage. while you wiped. To argue anything before this, is absolutely moronic. Stop moving the goal posts and answer the basic questions, then we can move onto the harder ones. Enjoy!

[Foxplay]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The assist is on Hoyi.

That assist happens after the new aggro messages go out in the video. I know it can be a little confusing because it happens nearly at the same time but let me break it down for you...

1:40 (Runyun Video) , go frame by frame

Fresh aggro messages go out - he is still typing /ass , he has not hit enter yet. This assist happens after Klaz got feign death off as new aggro messages happened and Hoyi just happened to be what Klaz's trains went to aggro first

[tacomagradd]

When you log in to a zone, you are assigned a new GUID when added to the table of players in the zone. NPCs will aggro the player with the highest GUID when no players have threat and there are multiple players in range.

He didn't get a new GUID number.

He never left the zone.

He never claimed he left, and he's caught on the fraps running up, feigning, getting up, casting FD again, and then dying.

Classic train. 100% textbook training technique.

It is not a coincidence that he's in our camp.

It is not a coincidence that we got trained immediately after their Vulak wipe.

Even if he somehow magically /q'd and got a new GUID number (which he didn't), the chances that he's the highest GUID instead of ~100 kittens/riot that actually did just cycle camp is highly improbable.

Sometimes the simplest explanation is the truth - and I think that is the case here. He ran up dirty, stood up and re-agro'd and trained the raid.

[Bardp1999]

Originally Posted by Hotel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

now we just need to agree that we need the gms to give us rules and we are getting somewhere

You're a fucking retard if 3 pages of Raid rules is not enough to solve your confusion.

These rules are in addition to the rules found here – http://www.project1999.com/raid.php
And here – https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=325349

Please remember that Guild Leaders and/or officers may be held accountable (with personal account suspensions on any/all of their characters) for any actions of their guild members, in addition to any other actions that may be taken by the Staff. It is therefore the responsibility of the Guild Leadership to ensure that all guild members abide by these (and all server) rules.

Last Updated: July 16, 2018

Q1: What is considered a "raid" on Project 1999?
A: A raid is any group of players looking to engage a raid target OR any force consisting of more than one group united in a common goal. This means that three people can be considered a raid if they intend to kill a raid target, or 20 people clearing fear trash. Most epic NPC's are not considered "raid" mobs. The exception to this is Ragefire, which is considered a 'high tier' mob along with mobs like Lodizal and Vindi. For all other intents and purposes, these mobs are treated as a 'high tier' NPC (ie: camp/poopsock rules do not apply). Please keep in mind that because of the need to clear to a raid target, trains enacted on players while on the way to these mobs can be considered raid violations and action could be taken against your guild as a whole, regardless of whether the victims are part of a raid. It is in your best interest to be very careful when racing for a target, especially when it involves training away mobs.

Q2: What exactly is Raid Disruption or Raid Interference?
A: Q3 and Q4 deal with what to do when this happens, but "Raid disruption" and "raid interference" are broad terms that cover a long list of things (near simultaneous FTE, training, kill-stealing, setting of AEs on other people, any violation of the posted raid rules, etc).

Q3: If we feel our own guild/party has violated a rule, what actions should we take?
A: If you screw up, then you should concede the mob you screwed up on.

Q4: If we feel another guild/party is breaking raid rules what actions may we take?
A: It is probably in your best interest to work raid disputes out among yourselves. The other option is the petition forum.

Q5: What about in cases where the mob dies before anyone is sure whom is at fault?
A: See Q4.
Note on Conceding / Forfeiting – You should concede a mob whenever your actions negatively impact another guild’s attempt at a mob, regardless of which zone the mob or the infraction take place in. Also, as far as what to concede / forfeit, if you still have a shot at the current mob, you should concede/forfeit that mob, if you do not still have a chance at the current mob, you should concede/forfeit the next two (it’s silly to try and concede a mob after you no longer have a real chance to kill that mob.

Note on Crying Wolf – if you request that another guild concede a mob, you better be 100% certain that they made an error, otherwise you may be punished harshly.


Note on Lockouts – if you concede a mob, or are suspended from a mob, those mobs will not be the mobs you are locked out from, they will be in addition to the mobs you are locked out from.

Note on Rule Lawyering – I think the spirit of everything we are trying to accomplish here is pretty clear. Anyone that tries to twist the words to support and/or justify nefarious actions will not be rewarded. There will be no “technically this could be that”, or “well it doesn’t exactly say this word for word”. From this point forward we will be actively enforcing the spirit of these rules more so than the exact letter of the law. Don't expect to skirt passed a raid suspension on a loop hole or technicality.

Q6: If we must bring a dispute to the GM's, how do we go about doing this?
A: If a guild breaks a rule, and refuses to remedy the situation as described above, then have one officer or leader with the authority to negotiate disputes for your guild petition in the petition/exploit forum. Please use clear formatting, cohesive sentences, and paragraphs. A full and detailed description of the event must be submitted (if the video is more than a couple minutes then you should include timestamps of importance). Include fraps, screenshots, and logs where applicable. We also request you provide a brief summary of the negotiations that took place (and likely failed) prior to the dispute being escalated to the CSR staff.

--

Q7: What classifies a mob as "Engaged"?
A: A mob is classified as engaged as long as it has aggro on at least one player. Once a mob has lost aggro on all players on its hate list, it will begin to path back towards its last location prior to being engaged. The mob is considered 'un-engaged' as soon as it is pathing back to where it belongs. You may engage the target as soon as you are able to obtain a new FTE message. You do not have to wait for it to path all the way back to its spawn spot. The intentional manipulation of FD, Charm, DA, and other similar mechanics used to engage/disengage a raid target multiple times in an attempt to prevent other guilds/parties from engaging, or to try and get another guild/party wiped, will be viewed as raid disruption.

Q8: Can we camp raid mobs?
A: No, all raid targets are first to engage. Note* If another guild/party wipes on a raid mob, you may engage that raid mob, as soon as its aggro/hate list is clear. You do not have to wait for it to path back to its spawn spot, nor do you have to wait for it to regen back to full health.

Q9: What rules pertain to raid mobs that are triggered spawns? Either by turn in or the killing of another mob?
A: If a raid mob is triggered to spawn by killing a single mob before it (Example: Statue -> Avatar of War), the guild/party that spawned the mob has 20 minutes to engage it. The mob is open to any other guild/party on a first to engage basis once the first guild/party either no longer has a presence, or the first guild/party has wiped, or has not been engaged within the 20 minute time limit. To clarify, one engage is defined as the mob getting aggro on one or more players from the raid, and then ending after losing aggro/resetting when those players have been killed or forced to abandon the fight. Once a triggered spawn no longer has aggro on anyone, it can be killed by anyone.

Q10: What about a raid mob being indefinitely kited, stalled, or occupied?
A: It is against server policy to indefinitely kite, stall, or otherwise keep occupied a raid mob without intention of killing it. You either bring it to your raid, die, or zone out. Obvious stalling of a raid mob, especially in situations to prevent engagement by another guild/party, is against the rules. Ignorance is not an excuse to break this rule. If you are pulling raid targets, we expect you to know what you’re doing.

Q11: What about training away trash mobs?
A: This is acceptable, but if you choose to use this tactic, you must keep in mind that you are responsible for your trains/mobs. Meaning if your trainer dies or zones, and the mobs go wipe another guild, that’s still training. When the time comes to purposely drop the train, make sure to communicate and coordinate with any other guilds in the zone. This means actually communicate so that both parties have a fair amount of time to work out a safe place, or a safe time to drop the train. Please try not to run your trains within aggro range of another guild or raid party.

Q12: What exactly does the Staff consider a stall?
A: As far as engage stalls, the Staff will grant you one DA, or about that much time on an engage before considering it a stall. So it’s important that guilds do not engage a mob until they are ready to kill it. The spirit of the rule (and what we are looking to do here) is to prevent guilds from locking up a target before they are ready to kill it, just to prevent other guilds that are ready to kill it first/faster. If you stall, you need to drop aggro immediately and concede/forfeit the mob. Any number of players can be considered to be stalling a mob, what we look for is the engage of the kill force. I know some of you want an exact number of seconds, or players, or DPS done. But the fact is that’s just not realistic with guilds being so vastly different in numbers and strength, while also competing for the same content. The most important thing here is the statement about the spirit of this rule stated above.

Q13: Will the planes be open to everyone?
A: Yes. Please be respectful to your fellow players and respect their space. If there is a guild/party in Hate and they start pulling creatures, don't go up there and sit on top of them pulling mobs in their area as well. If Guild A is doing Hate, then perhaps Guild B should be doing something else. Basically, don't be a douche bag. If you insist on being in the same plane at the same time as another guild/party, you may not set up camp on top of where another guild/party has already set up camp. To clarify, there is no limit to the number of guilds/people allowed in the planes at one time.

Q14: Do we have "No-CSR" zones on Project 1999?
A: At the moment, no.

Q15: Are either of my two trackers allowed to get FTE?
A: Absolutely not. If one of your trackers gains FTE, you need to drop aggro immediately and concede/forfeit the mob. Furthermore, if a guild gets FTE, any other guilds that are tracking the mob and end up with tracker FTE as a result of the first guild are not DQd from the mob.

Q16: Are we allowed to bind at raid mobs? And/or camp out toons at raid mobs?
A: Absolutely not.

Q17: How can a guild move from Class C, back to Class R?
A: If a Class C guild does not get a Class C kill for 30 days, then that guild can request that the staff place them back inside Class R. This request will be reviewed and then decided by the staff on a case by case basis.

Q18: Where can I deposit my tears?
A: As always, your tears and crying of favoritism are important to us; for without you we couldn't possibly run things around here.

Q19: What if I think a Staff member made a mistake?
A: If you feel that a Staff member may have made a mistake, we encourage you to politely and respectfully explain the situation in the Petition/Exploit section of our forums.

Q20: What if I have a legitimate complaint against a Staff member?
A: Any complaints against a Staff member should be sent to Llandris via a private message on the Project 1999 forums. Any complaints against Llandris should be directed to Rogean via a private message on the Project 1999 forums. Any complaints against Rogean should be directed to Nilbog via a private message on the Project 1999 forums.

Q21: How much time do I have to file a petition?
A: In order to request the review of a dispute, there must be a petition in the petition/exploit forum about the incident no more than one week (seven days) from the time of the dispute in question. The seventh day is the last day a dispute may be escalated to the server GMs. When filing a dispute, please use the "Other" prefix, with the title of the thread relevant to the incident. You must list at least one primary contact from your guild who has the authority to communicate with the staff and the opposing guild, as well as make decisions regarding the incident. Improperly filed petitions will be ignored. While we do accept Fraps that has been edited to point out specific things, you must also include the original unedited version (meaning all video and audio) or it may be ignored.

Q22: Are we allowed to use Rezz or Rezz bot tactics to acquire FTE?
A: In short, no. do not park corpses at raid mobs with the intent of rezzing them in for FTE, do not etc.

Q23: What exactly is off limits during a Raid Suspension?
A: Anything that has an FTE message and/or is considered more than one group content is a no (except Guardian Kozzalym, Master Yael, Verina Tomb, Vessel Drozlin, Lodizal, and Ragefire), no planes, no VP, no ToV, no ST, no Ringwar.

Q24: How many raid targets can a guild be killing, engaged on, or have FTE on at a single time?
A: A guild may only be killing, engaged on, or have FTE on one raid target at a time.

Q25: If my guild FTE's or engages a raid target, how long must we wait before FTE'ing or engaging another raid target?
A: If a guild/party FTEs or engages a raid target, they may not FTE or engage a second raid target until the first one is dead or until 30 minutes has passed (this doesn't apply to triggered spawn targets that your guild triggered/spawned). Example: If your guild is in EJ and you have Sev incoming to your raid, but then Vulak pops, you are no longer allowed to just drop the Sev pull to go for Vulak. You must either kill Sev, or wait 30 minutes before FTEing a new target. The only thing this rule does is further force guilds to prioritize which targets they go after. It does not change any other aspect of raiding on the server.

Q26: What exactly does the staff consider a Raid mob?
A: Aary, Avatar of War, Cazic_Thule, Cekenar, Dagarn, Dain, Dozekar, Druushk, Eashen, Faydedar, Final_Arbiter, Gorenaire, Gozzrem, Hoshkar, Ikatiar, Innoruuk, Jorlleag, Kelorek_Dar, King_Tormax, Klandicar, Lady_Mirenilla, Lady_Nev, Lady_Vox, Lendiniara, Lord_Feshlak, Lord_Koi`Doken, Lord_Kreizenn, Lord_Nagafen, Lord_Vyemm, Master_of_the_Guard, Nexona, Phara_Dar, Progenitor, Sevalak, Severilous, Silverwing, Sontalak, Statue_of_Rallos_Zek, Talendor, Telk, Trakanon, Tunare, Velketor, Venril_Sathir, Vulak, Wuoshi, Xygoz, Yelinak, Zlandicar, Zlexak, as well as Fright, Dread, Terror, and Draco in Plane of Fear, all named mobs in Plane of Growth, all of Plane of Sky (this does not apply to island 1.5 in Sky (Noble/Gwan)), along with Maestro and mini bosses in Plane of Hate (if a guild is actively clearing hate when a mini boss spawns, they will not be DQ'd from that mini boss).

Q27: What happens if there's a simulated re-pop while we are currently in a raid zone?
A: As long as the person or persons that were in the zone leave that zone and come back before doing anything with the desired raid target, you will not be DQ'd from that target (camping/logging out of game does not count). We do not want people socking re-pops, but we also do not want to punish players by preventing them from doing other things (like HoT, Juggs, Vindi, etc) for fear of getting their guild DQ'd. This should accomplish both of those things, but will be updated if/as needed.

Q28: Where are starting lines for FTE racers?
A: Dain Frostreaver IV: Behind the archway just past the zone line.
Faydedar: On the island with the Ogre camp (#1 on wiki map).
Gorenaire: At the druid rings.
Kael Drakkal: Behind the ice/snow line at the Wakening Lands zone line.
Kelorek`Dar: At the zone in rings or Siren's Grotto zone line.
Lady Vox: Before the ladder at the zone in.
Lord Nagafen: In the entrance tunnel from Lavastorm.
Lord Yelinak: At the fountain to Cobalt Scar or Wakening Lands zone line.
Severilous: At the Field of Bone or Trakanon's Teeth zone lines.
Sleeper's Tomb: Behind the entrance door.
Talendor: At the Burning Woods or Overthere zone lines.
Temple of Veeshan: Behind the bottom step just past the entrance door.
Trakanon: At the zone in.
Veeshan's Peak: On the blue entrance pad.
Venril Sathir: The hallway between the entrance zonelines.
Zlandicar: Behind the zone in portal.
---
Plane of Fear: At the PoF portal in Feerrott.
Plane of Hate: Anywhere not in Hate unless actively clearing with a raid force.

Q29: Can we use Illusions or Crown of rile on races?
Crown of Rile spam + Jumping is not allowed on any races.

AON or Skeleton Illusion is not allowed on any races.

Q30: What can a tracker do?
A tracker can't be on the encounter log. Trackers are for tracking, not kiting, pulling, DPSing or healing.

Example: A mage tracker can COTH + lay down rods, but can't nuke or send his pet in.
A cleric tracker can rez dead bodies, but can't heal any players that are part of the encounter.

Q31: What is a concession? Are there any specific rules around concessions?
The server staff views a concession as an agreement between two Guilds when one of them recognizes that they broke an agreement and/or violated a raid rule. It is a first-line option that should be taken prior to and (hopefully) as an alternative to submitting a petition for a rule being violated. It is generally a better option for all involved, as a Guild who habitually refuses concessions that are deemed appropriate by server staff could eventually be held accountable for crying wolf.

The terms of those concessions are something that would need to be agreed upon by both Guilds as acceptable recompense for the situation. While there is pretty strong past precedence in terms of concessions, the server staff does not mandate specific concessions in specific scenarios.

Once a concession is offered and accepted, it's binding for BOTH Guilds. One of the Guilds agrees to bypass a number of kills of a certain mob or mobs, while the other agrees not to petition for the situation that drove the concession. If an extreme scenario arises where either Guild feels warranted backing out from this agreement, I would strongly recommend discussing it with the other Guild and reaching out to CSR prior to doing so. We could see this as a form of defrauding another player or Guild. In addition to the potential raid violation, it could be considered a PNP infraction.


A lot of you have questions as to crime & punishment; I hope to address that here:
If a petition comes to the staff, the offending guild/party will have the loots removed (if they got the kill), and will be suspended from all raid targets for 7 days if found in violation (to be more in line with PNP violations). If a guild wastes the staffs time with false, trumped up, dishonest, or insincere petitions against other guilds, then the petitioning guild will receive the suspension. In addition to this, if the petitioning guild is found to be at fault, the loot will be destroyed and not awarded to anyone. In addition to that, individual blanket suspensions will also be applied (ie: suspended for training if caught training, etc). Habitual offenders of these rules will have their raid suspension time doubled each time they are suspended (counters will reset after 3 months without a suspension).


Any Raid petitions made after the date and time of this post will subject to the guidelines stated in this post.


I hope this provides some clarification on a number of rules we have had in the past, as well as cementing some new rules that were recently added.

[Nutsax]

Originally Posted by Wokka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The hypocrisy and bias among the hyper nerds is incredible. It doesn't really matter what happens, now or in the past or future. People will believe what they want to believe, reason and logic have no place in their narrative, and as long as they think they have "won" the argument, they will continue to think of themselves as morally superior. Pathetic. Go outside for a few days, turn off your computer and wake up to yourselves.

There is objective truth; the videos plainly shows a fd class training a raid. Only a imbecile would claim otherwise.
He had no reason to be there, no reason to stand and bring in mobs to wipe out people sitting before mobs attack and kill him, no reason to not /q while fd, no reason to run past a competing guild, and his silence on this thread explaining his actions is deafening.
Textbook training. QED
He should be banned.

[tombombadilo21]

mega immersed hotel

Go outside.

[remen]

Originally Posted by Nexii [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your dude trained us lol. And did it blatantly. There is no reason to run up to doubles on a wipe and FD/stand

He didn't train you guys. He ran up there as our cameraman to fraps your raid and make sure you weren't trying to slow down vulak guards or trash by kiting them through the lava. We all know mobs swim more slowly than they run.