Cheating everywhere, GMs???

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by titanshub [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The distribution is from humanreaction.com and their database of 81million tests. Looks pretty valid to me.

It is irrelevant because that test is not done in the same way a video game is done. That website almost certainly does the reaction time on the client side exclusively, and then sends the results up to their database afterwards. It has nothing to do with a video game, where every player is receiving the same data at different periods in time. Unless you can figure out what the difference was for everybody, you can't use a single observer to determine if cheating occurred.

Originally Posted by hotkarlmarxbros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I already engaged your example. It is becoming increasingly less relevant the more you type. Any observer sees 'race start' and 'run start' from the players strictly as a function of these other players ping + reaction time. You are not a clever snowflake hacker mastermind talking to unwashed masses. I majored in computer science, I've built TCP functionality into data sent over more primitive protocols for projects in network programming classes. I work as a programmer (albeit on mundane CRUD applications). I would also venture a guess that my corpus of knowledge is dwarfed by more than a dozen people who sit around and play this game and/or peruse this forum, but you would not be one of them.

The biggest disconnect from reality in your posts is your unwillingness to engage stunningly's actual ping that has been shown. Actual footage from him logged into the game, hilariously having so many other things obscured because he's shady as fuck, but forgetting to hide that one detail. It is time to take a breath and either face some facts or realize that all your posting is just spinning your wheels while convincing exactly nobody.

Honestly I don't care about your credentials. You would understand what I am talking about if you are telling the truth. The first problem is you assume the ping meter at the top is even correct. I have no idea if that thing is accurate[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Just because it is displayed on the screen, it doesn't mean a damn thing.

But let's assume his ping was correct for arguments sake. You still don't have the ping of the other observers, so you again don't know the order in which the data was sent and received, so you cannot possibly account for it.

[titanshub]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is irrelevant because that test is not done in the same way a video game is done. That website almost certainly does the reaction time on the client side exclusively, and then sends the results up to their database afterwards. It has nothing to do with a video game, where every player is receiving the same data at different periods in time. Unless you can figure out what the difference was for everybody, you can't use a single observer to determine if cheating occurred.



Honestly I don't care about your credentials. You would understand what I am talking about if you are telling the truth. The first problem is you assume the ping meter at the top is even correct. I have no idea if that thing is accurate[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Just because it is displayed on the screen, it doesn't mean a damn thing.

But let's assume his ping was correct for arguments sake. You still don't have the ping of the other observers, so you again don't know the order in which the data was sent and received, so you cannot possibly account for it.

I'm the video the OP addresses your points about the dataset. Watch the video.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by titanshub [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm the video the OP addresses your points about the dataset. Watch the video.

I watched all the source videos. I don't see any huge discrepancies between the racers. The leaders were a tiny bit ahead, but nothing that indicates obvious cheating, and well within the margins of basic differences in sending and receiving data.

[titanshub]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I watched all the source videos. I don't see any huge discrepancies between the racers. The leaders were a tiny bit ahead, but nothing that indicates obvious cheating, and well within the margins of basic differences in sending and receiving data.

As I said before you don't really understand the OPs argument or you are being disingenuous. It's always possible that OP made a mistake in his analysis but you have in no way demonstrated one.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by titanshub [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As I said before you don't really understand the OPs argument or you are being disingenuous. It's always possible that OP made a mistake in his analysis but you have in no way demonstrated one.

OP ignored basic computer science about data transfer over a network. So yes, he missed a big part in his analysis.

Please come back when you have the following:

1. Actual ping from all of the racers and the roller. This would first require proof the green bar at the top is accurate. If it isn't accurate, you would need to measure the ping of all players in a different manner.

2. Get the actual send/receive times for all of the racers and roller. Ping is round trip time, so it doesn't guarantee a 50/50 split between send and receive.

3. Determine how P99 prioritizes packets to be sent out. If message packets are given lower priority (and thus have more chance of being dropped), players could receive messages later than others due to this.

[titanshub]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP ignored basic computer science about data transfer over a network. So yes, he missed a big part in his analysis.

Please come back when you have the following:

1. Actual ping from all of the racers and the roller. This would first require proof the green bar at the top is accurate. If it isn't accurate, you would need to measure the ping of all players in a different manner.

2. Get the actual send/receive times for all of the racers and roller. Ping is round trip time, so it doesn't guarantee a 50/50 split between send and receive.

3. Determine how P99 prioritizes packets to be sent out. If message packets are given lower priority (and thus have more chance of being dropped), players could receive messages later than others due to this.

1. Ping time for stunningly is a decent approximation and based off of his actual ping. It could be demonstrated to be a wrong assertion but you have not done so. We don't need the ping of everyone you are just saying that to raise the burden of evidence beyond what is provided. It's not needed to make the analysis and missing it doesn't invalidate it.

2.we don't need to know the exact send receive time of every device you just don't seem to understand the technicals of the argument. 1/2 ping is a reasonable assumption. Ofc we don't have that knowledge and never will. If that was the level of information required to punish cheaters then no cheating would ever be able to be punished.

3. Packet prioritization delays on the server going to be negligible to the point of irrelevance. Packets will leave the server as fast as the server can give them to the network adapter and will leave the servers network adapter at wire speed. If there was a CPU or network backlog everyone playing would know it.

These are just excuses. We know when the data left the server. It's 1/2 the observers ping. Accounting for extraordinary circumstances still doesn't explain why the accused is consistently outside of the normal distribution of racers. It also doesn't explain the presense of so many world class 18 year old Olympian reaction times in a 20y/o elf sim. With that information and the ping of the racer we can infer very closely a best case reaction time of the human to produce the lowest time in relation to the observers recording.

You keep asking for perfect nobody can provide that. The bar is beyond reasonable doubt. If you have evidence the accusation is wrong provide it. I know you are not a bad guy. Can you not see how the actions of your guild mate might effect the rest of us who play here? Idc if stunningly wins 75% of the kael races, I'm in kittens. You seem to dismiss the reasonable claim on the grounds that you don't have to until there is a real claim. There can never be a claim that meets your threshold of evidence.

Like it or not the claim has been made. It could be disproved. I think most people are open to that possibility. This is a hard argument to make and there well could be an error or wrong assumption. However your time is better spent disproving what looks like a valid claim than trying to deny you need to defend from the accusation. We all play here and we are all damaged by cheaters. If he is innocent then it should be demonstrated via a rebuttal. So says everyone who plays here and isn't on the receiving end of these kael races.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by titanshub [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like it or not the claim has been made. It could be disproved. I think most people are open to that possibility. This is a hard argument to make and there well could be an error or wrong assumption. However your time is better spent disproving what looks like a valid claim than trying to deny you need to defend from the accusation. We all play here and we are all damaged by cheaters. If he is innocent then it should be demonstrated via a rebuttal. So says everyone who plays here and isn't on the receiving end of these kael races.

Only a small subset of the posters here agree that your claim is valid. The rest of us agree that there's no proof in the video. There's some made up equations. There's a poorly made connection to a website that's testing something else. And there's Riot posters just blindly treating the video as gospel because they WANT to believe.

Yall wanted to prove that Vanquish was cheating. You made up numbers and found a website that shows some people can click on colors faster than others. You cheated yourselves to prove it was possible, but have no proof that anybody else is cheating.

And you're blocking out any criticism that shows the flaws in your study.

Nice.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I watched all the source videos. I don't see any huge discrepancies between the racers. The leaders were a tiny bit ahead, but nothing that indicates obvious cheating, and well within the margins of basic differences in sending and receiving data.

Dude sorry but you don’t know the history to this I guess. This happened months ago. Riot scripted to prove that Vanquish had been scripting. It was admitted that it happened. The cheating occurred

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dude sorry but you don’t know the history to this I guess. This happened months ago. Riot scripted to prove that Vanquish had been scripting. It was admitted that it happened. The cheating occurred

If that is the truth then all this proves is you can't really tell the difference between cheating and not cheating, as they are never that far ahead of the "non-cheaters". It is a minimal amount that could be accounted for via data transfer, differences in reaction times, etc.

I am sorry that Everquest 1 was not designed with this kind of racing in mind, where 100ms is the difference between victory and defeat. You will never get that kind of functionality out of EQ, and there will always be someone with an advantage simply due to their proximity to the P99 servers.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If that is the truth then all this proves is you can't really tell the difference between cheating and not cheating, as they are never that far ahead of the "non-cheaters". It is a minimal amount that could be accounted for via data transfer, differences in reaction times, etc.

I am sorry that Everquest 1 was not designed with this kind of racing in mind, where 100ms is the difference between victory and defeat. You will never get that kind of functionality out of EQ, and there will always be someone with an advantage simply due to their proximity to the P99 servers.

No except you can tell the difference. I’m not sure if you’re just being stubborn here.

The cheating isn’t designed to make them “far ahead” of the non cheaters. It’s a race. They don’t need to be far ahead because the script makes them react instantly upon the spawn of the mob to start running. Someone not cheating wouldn’t be able to react that fast and therefore as long as the person/people scripting don’t make a mistake and like run into a wall or something they will always stay ahead of the non cheaters. It’s literally been proven many times as a result of this type of stuff.