#141
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I've kind of lost track of the different directions this debate is going.
Are the pro-nerf people saying that the effect of (or even existence of) a charisma check on charm break should be reduced or removed? Or is it that channelling doesn't work correctly? (this would affect all classes I suppose) I have both a 60 chanter and a 60 shaman and I frequently farm in places like PoM (both), OT (both) and Velketor (chanter). Soloing with chanter is much faster. Soloing with shaman is much safer. People saying it's "god-mode" or "fool-proof" to charm solo as chanter are incorrect in my opinion. The ceiling for charming is obviously ultra high in terms of what you can do, but you have to be ready to soak up deaths. If you have good gear this can off-set the number of death's but there will still be many more death's than if you are on the shaman. So I suppose people wanting a chanter nerf either want it to be impossible to charm solo stuff beyond a certain threshold or for it to be much riskier than it already is? And this is because it may or may not have been different back in actual 1999-2001? But the evidence is not completely compelling? Or it would have already happened? | ||
#142
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#143
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Thing is, the side effect of "nerfing" charm to remove CHA would actually make it more powerful. The reason is because that "nerf" also includes a change to the enchanter charm spell that gives it a +4 level modifer. Basically if you are level 60, its like you are casting with the resist check of a level 64. Your level far outweighs CHA when it comes to charming. Chanters would also be able to dump all of their CHA gear for gear with HP and resists, making it easier from that aspect too. So the "nerf" would actually be a buff.
And here I am arguing against it lol. | ||
Last edited by -Catherin-; 07-09-2022 at 05:22 PM..
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#144
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Classic evidence is hard to find: we've had things unclassic here for over a decade though, which finally got fixed ... because again, the goal of this place is to make it classic. Enchanters are clearly not classic here. Simple proof: go to a CT raid. On P99 it's all about charm pets, with guilds racing to collect the most pets when CT is contested ... but then go look at the Wayback archive of CT's page on Allakhazam. Even in 2003 you won't find a single mention of charming. Here's how people fought CT in classic: Quote:
People could have charmed tons of mobs for the CT fight ... and for lots of other fights (eg. in every group they were in) ... but they didn't because charm was dangerous in classic. Whatever the fix, whether it's with channeling, charisma, or whatever ... something needs to be done to make the Enchanter class classic here. Otherwise it's like we're playing a completely different game from the '99-'01 one.
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Loramin Frostseer, Oracle of the Tribunal <Anonymous> and Fan of the "Where To Go For XP/For Treasure?" Guides Anyone can improve the wiki! If you are new to the Blue or Green servers, you can improve the wiki to earn a "welcome package" of platinum and/or gear! Send me a forum message for details. | ||||
#145
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Charming is clearly not classic here. Simple proof: go to a CT raid. On P99 it's all about charm pets, and I can't even imagine a guild fighting CT here without an army of pets ... but then go look at the Wayback archive of CT's page on Allakhazam. Even in 2003 you won't find a single mention of charming. Here's how people fought CT in classic: Quote:
People could have charmed tons of mobs for the CT fight ... and for lots of other fights (eg. in every group they were in) ... but they didn't because charm was more risky and dangerous in classic. The fix might be to change channeling, or charisma, or it may be to add something like the 25 mob AoE limit (ie. an "unclassic to make things more classic" change): I don't know. But something needs to be done to make charming classic here: otherwise it's like we're playing a completely different game from the '99-'01 one.
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Loramin Frostseer, Oracle of the Tribunal <Anonymous> and Fan of the "Where To Go For XP/For Treasure?" Guides Anyone can improve the wiki! If you are new to the Blue or Green servers, you can improve the wiki to earn a "welcome package" of platinum and/or gear! Send me a forum message for details. | |||||
Last edited by loramin; 07-10-2022 at 10:34 AM..
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#146
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So you want “classic” but when it’s impossible to prove you want an interpretation of classic that matches what you remember?
Using examples of how raiding is done on p99 and comparing it to descriptions of raiding from the early 2000s seems of very little use. Each player in 2000 didn’t have access to 2-6 lvl 60s. Raiding guilds didn’t have access to an army of cleric bots. Using a description of a CT raid which doesn’t entail 5-10 encs, druids and necros charming doesn’t prove much. | ||
#147
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iterestingly enough, the general guide provided from that exact link says this about druids:
"Druids are essential for the raiding party. They can charm animal MOBs that enter the camp without invitation, turning a foe into a nice level 50 pet." thats all they say, which is to say that they were essential but seemingly only essential for one reason alone -- because they could charm. Giant swing and a miss on this one loramin. Kek. Loramin's concerns about enchanters and how they play on p99 being "non-classic" is of course a giant crock of shit. as ive already mentioned if someone was concerened about "classic" and actually played in the period considered "classic' on p99, shaman would be at the very top of the list of non-classicness, bards would be next with bullsht swrm kiting that never existed in "classic" time period. even having a good connection you still you get dc'ed frequently and still get the occasional server hiccups that would destroy any bard dumb enough to spend 15 ius rounding up 40+ mobs to kill. which is why none of them did. | ||
#149
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I mean if we are talking about CT literally everything on that encounter on P99 is done in a not classic way. And on that same subject, player hardware limitations aside, the SOE servers themselves could not handle that amount of stuff going on.
There is a lot more going on than charming there, and it’s all driven by the envelope being pushed to the very limit to defeat the competition. You are just cherry picking charming to suit your narrative without even really understanding what it’s actually like having to use it there. I’ve been on a lot of these CT raids you speak of. Every single one of them are absolute chaos. And those charmed pets are not a free ride. They are breaking all over the place and it can get to the point where they will wipe your own raid if there is not a coordinated efforts from others to support the charmers. Your idea of these kind of things trivializing content couldn’t be more false. If we could just casually clear the entire zone and then take down CT without any of that and be able to prep it would be SO much easier. But in the competitive environment that we are on, we are all forced to go as hard as we can and take major risks to win. CT isn’t easy CT is a shitshow. Edit: when I think about it now. I did a lot of CT in classic too. It was actually a lot easier back then than it is now. It’s quicker here. Because we have no choice | ||
Last edited by -Catherin-; 07-11-2022 at 12:10 PM..
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#150
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This poh guide from 2000 literally talks about charming
https://thesafehouse.org/forums/foru...-plane-of-hate Quote:
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