Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Zuranthium]

Your DoTs are not going to tick full duration the majority of the time. WTF do you not understand.

Manarobe and DPS clickies also exist for Mage. Your numbers are not accurate at all.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your DoTs are not going to tick full duration the majority of the time. WTF do you not understand.

Manarobe and DPS clickies also exist for Mage. Your numbers are not accurate at all.

What you don't understand is you don't need the DoTs to tick for the full duration. Each tick is 214 damage + 146 damage = 360. 360 / 6 = 60 DPS.

Add in the pet and you are getting somewhere around 10-15 DPS. It would be higher in an Enchanter group since they could give it a better haste. The mob is not dying in 6 seconds, so you just need to apply the DoTs in the beginning of the fight for most of the ticks to get through. Envenomed Bolt and Bane only last for 7 or 8 ticks, so you will get most of them on a mob that dies in 40 seconds.

My DPS calculations did not include Shaman clickies either, so if you want to play that game we can[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What you don't understand is you don't need the DoTs to tick for the full duration. Each tick is 214 damage + 146 damage = 360. 360 / 6 = 60 DPS.

You don't have the mana to cast both of those on every single MOB. Your premise is still incorrect to begin with, as it takes a significant amount of TIME to cast both of those, they aren't just ticking right away. You are truly an idiot.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don't have the mana to cast both of those on every single MOB. Your premise is still incorrect to begin with, as it takes a significant amount of TIME to cast both of those, they aren't just ticking right away. You are truly an idiot.

No, you simply cannot read, yet again lol. Let me repost this.

A Shaman can regenerate around 16 mana per second. 3600 seconds x 16 mana = 57600. Bane + Envenomed bolt cost 745 combined, so 57600 / 745 = 77. So I can cast this combination around 70 times per hour realistically. The DoTs do NOT have to finish, because they always deal the same damage. (214 + 146) / 6 = 60 DPS flat. My pet does around 13 DPS on average, so you are looking at 73 DPS on average for a Shaman, unless you are killing more than 70 mobs per hour. In higher level zones usually you have lower kills per hour due to camp availabilities and 30 minute respawns. I am not even including clicking Epic.

It only takes about 40 seconds to recover the entire mana cost of Bane + Envenomed Bolt. I am not even including the mana reduction from specialization, so it may be a bit faster.

Also the DoTs do have a initial hit as well, which I didn't include[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] If you are looking at the initial hit, that is 110 + 150 = 260/6 = 43 DPS roughly, so yes you are getting something even if the mob dies in 6 seconds.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so yes you are getting something even if the mob dies in 6 seconds.

If the mob's dying that fast you're farming greens in sol A or blackburrow or someplace, haha. I'll grant the magician's superior for that task. The shaman does have a bit of a ramp-up time that shouldn't be wholly ignored; chain-killing greens does play against it. Now, why our hypothetical 4-man of 60's is hanging out in SolA, you tell me.......

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If the mob's dying that fast you're farming greens in sol A or blackburrow or someplace, haha. I'll grant the magician's superior for that task. The shaman does have a bit of a ramp-up time that shouldn't be wholly ignored; chain-killing greens does play against it. Now, why our hypothetical 4-man of 60's is hanging out in SolA, you tell me.......

Of course. As I said before a Mage is fine clearing easy greens somewhere. But you aren't going to be doing that in a 4 man static at 60[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I have said many times before Mage's are better before 60, because Torpor is the key here.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A Shaman can regenerate around 16 mana per second.

You require the Cleric to constantly spend mana healing you in order to theoretically be able to canni that much, or you would need to spend your own time and mana on Torpor, which inherently is slowing you down and means that's not your actual mana regen rate.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It only takes about 40 seconds to recover the entire mana cost of Bane + Envenomed Bolt.

Even if you theoretically had enough mana, that can still be too slow. Go to Kael plate cycle. It's an infinite number of MOBs to kill. Being able to DoT every 40 seconds isn't good enough.

But even beyond that, your numbers are STILL very wrong. Your DPS only starts working after spells actually land, and the DoT's need to fully tick (which they frequently don't, as the target dies before the next tick comes). Here is what the numbers actually look like in a group scenario like this:

Spend 5 seconds casting Bane --> 150 damage and will hit 3 ticks = 792 damage
7 seconds later E-bolt hits ---> 110 damage and will hit 2 ticks = 402 damage

That is only 30 DPS. This also assumes you never get resisted, which won't be the case. In actuality the DPS is much lower.

I will help you out though: using E-bolt is pointless, "Blast of Poison" is going to be better instead, as it costs much less mana. You can do a Bane + Blast cycle more frequently (every 30 seconds), and let's say this is sufficient to match the pace of the group. Assuming 70% effectiveness of your spells because of resists, that means the actual realistic DPS is 28. If the Cleric has the mana to always heal you.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You require the Cleric to constantly spend mana healing you in order to theoretically be able to canni that much, or you would need to spend your own time and mana on Torpor, which inherently is slowing you down and means that's not your actual mana regen rate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjZxMlJSCDc Nope, I can regenerate that myself with just Torpor[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even if you theoretically had enough mana, that can still be too slow. Go to Kael plate cycle. It's an infinite number of MOBs to kill. Being able to DoT every 40 seconds isn't good enough.

But even beyond that, your numbers are STILL very wrong. Your DPS only starts working after spells actually land, and the DoT's need to fully tick (which they frequently don't, as the target dies before the next tick comes). Here is what the numbers actually look like in a group scenario like this:

Spend 5 seconds casting Bane --> 150 damage and will hit 3 ticks = 792 damage
7 seconds later E-bolt hits ---> 110 damage and will hit 2 ticks = 402 damage

That is only 30 DPS. This also assumes you never get resisted, which won't be the case. In actuality the DPS is much lower.

I will help you out though: using E-bolt is pointless, "Blast of Poison" is going to be better instead, as it costs much less mana. You can do a Bane + Blast cycle more frequently (every 30 seconds), and let's say this is sufficient to match the pace of the group. Assuming 70% effectiveness of your spells because of resists, that means the actual realistic DPS is 28. If the Cleric has the mana to always heal you.

You can't math. Let's say a mob dies in 30 seconds.

You Bane first. That is 150 + 214 x 4 ticks = 1006
You E-Bolt second. That is 110 + 146 x 3 ticks = 548

1548 / 30 = 50 DPS lol. Obviously cast times effect DPS a little bit on a per mob basis. The same is true when a Mage is nuke spamming mobs. They could also land the nuke while the mob is at low life and lose DPS that way. They could also use /pet attack late.

The reason why we use average DPS is because not all mobs are going to die in exactly 30 seconds. Sometimes your DPS will be higher, sometimes it will be lower.

Resists can occur on a Mage too, so they are losing DPS as well lol.

[Zuranthium]

My math is not wrong at all DSM, yours is:

1.) You try to add an extra tick duration to the DoT's when that's not going to happen much of the time with how fast the group is killing single targets.

2.) You suddenly say you can do Bane + Ebolt every 30 seconds, which you can not. You don't have the mana.

3.) You ignore resists.

4.) You don't understand time expenditure. In your latest post you now claim you can throw in JBB, when that does nothing. If you are using JBB then you aren't doing Canni spam in that time allotment, which means you are losing mana.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Resists can occur on a Mage too, so they are losing DPS as well lol.

Most of a Mage's DPS is from pet + unresistible damage shield.

If you compare their ideal direct-damage spell DPS, the Shaman is barely better than the Mage anyway in a group like this. Mage damage spells are more efficient on their own and they can use Manarobe between med ticks when they have free time for a bit of extra mana.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your Blast of Poison idea is silly too. You would deal 800 damage for 400 mana, but you have double the resist chance because you are casting the spell twice.

You don't have "double the resist chance" you idiot. Blast of Poison is simply flat-out better than Ebolt here. E-bolt is going to do the same amount of damage, since it doesn't have time to actually work fully, and cost you 320 mana rather than 200.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why would I use Blast of Poison and not Ice Strike if I wanted to blast something as a shaman? Blast is a mediocre mid-level spell, am I missing something?

Ice Strike gets completely resisted by Velious giants.

The cast time also means you are losing a cast of Canni, which in the end means Ice Strike only has a 2.03 damage-to-mana efficiency, hardly better than the 2.0 of Blast. If you factor in Ice Strike fizzling more because of being higher level, then it's not more efficient at all.