Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What you don't understand is you don't need the DoTs to tick for the full duration. Each tick is 214 damage + 146 damage = 360. 360 / 6 = 60 DPS.

You don't have the mana to cast both of those on every single MOB. Your premise is still incorrect to begin with, as it takes a significant amount of TIME to cast both of those, they aren't just ticking right away. You are truly an idiot.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don't have the mana to cast both of those on every single MOB. Your premise is still incorrect to begin with, as it takes a significant amount of TIME to cast both of those, they aren't just ticking right away. You are truly an idiot.

No, you simply cannot read, yet again lol. Let me repost this.

A Shaman can regenerate around 16 mana per second. 3600 seconds x 16 mana = 57600. Bane + Envenomed bolt cost 745 combined, so 57600 / 745 = 77. So I can cast this combination around 70 times per hour realistically. The DoTs do NOT have to finish, because they always deal the same damage. (214 + 146) / 6 = 60 DPS flat. My pet does around 13 DPS on average, so you are looking at 73 DPS on average for a Shaman, unless you are killing more than 70 mobs per hour. In higher level zones usually you have lower kills per hour due to camp availabilities and 30 minute respawns. I am not even including clicking Epic.

It only takes about 40 seconds to recover the entire mana cost of Bane + Envenomed Bolt. I am not even including the mana reduction from specialization, so it may be a bit faster.

Also the DoTs do have a initial hit as well, which I didn't include[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] If you are looking at the initial hit, that is 110 + 150 = 260/6 = 43 DPS roughly, so yes you are getting something even if the mob dies in 6 seconds.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so yes you are getting something even if the mob dies in 6 seconds.

If the mob's dying that fast you're farming greens in sol A or blackburrow or someplace, haha. I'll grant the magician's superior for that task. The shaman does have a bit of a ramp-up time that shouldn't be wholly ignored; chain-killing greens does play against it. Now, why our hypothetical 4-man of 60's is hanging out in SolA, you tell me.......

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If the mob's dying that fast you're farming greens in sol A or blackburrow or someplace, haha. I'll grant the magician's superior for that task. The shaman does have a bit of a ramp-up time that shouldn't be wholly ignored; chain-killing greens does play against it. Now, why our hypothetical 4-man of 60's is hanging out in SolA, you tell me.......

Of course. As I said before a Mage is fine clearing easy greens somewhere. But you aren't going to be doing that in a 4 man static at 60[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I have said many times before Mage's are better before 60, because Torpor is the key here.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A Shaman can regenerate around 16 mana per second.

You require the Cleric to constantly spend mana healing you in order to theoretically be able to canni that much, or you would need to spend your own time and mana on Torpor, which inherently is slowing you down and means that's not your actual mana regen rate.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It only takes about 40 seconds to recover the entire mana cost of Bane + Envenomed Bolt.

Even if you theoretically had enough mana, that can still be too slow. Go to Kael plate cycle. It's an infinite number of MOBs to kill. Being able to DoT every 40 seconds isn't good enough.

But even beyond that, your numbers are STILL very wrong. Your DPS only starts working after spells actually land, and the DoT's need to fully tick (which they frequently don't, as the target dies before the next tick comes). Here is what the numbers actually look like in a group scenario like this:

Spend 5 seconds casting Bane --> 150 damage and will hit 3 ticks = 792 damage
7 seconds later E-bolt hits ---> 110 damage and will hit 2 ticks = 402 damage

That is only 30 DPS. This also assumes you never get resisted, which won't be the case. In actuality the DPS is much lower.

I will help you out though: using E-bolt is pointless, "Blast of Poison" is going to be better instead, as it costs much less mana. You can do a Bane + Blast cycle more frequently (every 30 seconds), and let's say this is sufficient to match the pace of the group. Assuming 70% effectiveness of your spells because of resists, that means the actual realistic DPS is 28. If the Cleric has the mana to always heal you.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You require the Cleric to constantly spend mana healing you in order to theoretically be able to canni that much, or you would need to spend your own time and mana on Torpor, which inherently is slowing you down and means that's not your actual mana regen rate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjZxMlJSCDc Nope, I can regenerate that myself with just Torpor[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even if you theoretically had enough mana, that can still be too slow. Go to Kael plate cycle. It's an infinite number of MOBs to kill. Being able to DoT every 40 seconds isn't good enough.

But even beyond that, your numbers are STILL very wrong. Your DPS only starts working after spells actually land, and the DoT's need to fully tick (which they frequently don't, as the target dies before the next tick comes). Here is what the numbers actually look like in a group scenario like this:

Spend 5 seconds casting Bane --> 150 damage and will hit 3 ticks = 792 damage
7 seconds later E-bolt hits ---> 110 damage and will hit 2 ticks = 402 damage

That is only 30 DPS. This also assumes you never get resisted, which won't be the case. In actuality the DPS is much lower.

I will help you out though: using E-bolt is pointless, "Blast of Poison" is going to be better instead, as it costs much less mana. You can do a Bane + Blast cycle more frequently (every 30 seconds), and let's say this is sufficient to match the pace of the group. Assuming 70% effectiveness of your spells because of resists, that means the actual realistic DPS is 28. If the Cleric has the mana to always heal you.

You can't math. Let's say a mob dies in 30 seconds.

You Bane first. That is 150 + 214 x 4 ticks = 1006
You E-Bolt second. That is 110 + 146 x 3 ticks = 548

1548 / 30 = 50 DPS lol. Obviously cast times effect DPS a little bit on a per mob basis. The same is true when a Mage is nuke spamming mobs. They could also land the nuke while the mob is at low life and lose DPS that way. They could also use /pet attack late.

The reason why we use average DPS is because not all mobs are going to die in exactly 30 seconds. Sometimes your DPS will be higher, sometimes it will be lower.

Resists can occur on a Mage too, so they are losing DPS as well lol.

[Zuranthium]

My math is not wrong at all DSM, yours is:

1.) You try to add an extra tick duration to the DoT's when that's not going to happen much of the time with how fast the group is killing single targets.

2.) You suddenly say you can do Bane + Ebolt every 30 seconds, which you can not. You don't have the mana.

3.) You ignore resists.

4.) You don't understand time expenditure. In your latest post you now claim you can throw in JBB, when that does nothing. If you are using JBB then you aren't doing Canni spam in that time allotment, which means you are losing mana.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Resists can occur on a Mage too, so they are losing DPS as well lol.

Most of a Mage's DPS is from pet + unresistible damage shield.

If you compare their ideal direct-damage spell DPS, the Shaman is barely better than the Mage anyway in a group like this. Mage damage spells are more efficient on their own and they can use Manarobe between med ticks when they have free time for a bit of extra mana.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your Blast of Poison idea is silly too. You would deal 800 damage for 400 mana, but you have double the resist chance because you are casting the spell twice.

You don't have "double the resist chance" you idiot. Blast of Poison is simply flat-out better than Ebolt here. E-bolt is going to do the same amount of damage, since it doesn't have time to actually work fully, and cost you 320 mana rather than 200.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why would I use Blast of Poison and not Ice Strike if I wanted to blast something as a shaman? Blast is a mediocre mid-level spell, am I missing something?

Ice Strike gets completely resisted by Velious giants.

The cast time also means you are losing a cast of Canni, which in the end means Ice Strike only has a 2.03 damage-to-mana efficiency, hardly better than the 2.0 of Blast. If you factor in Ice Strike fizzling more because of being higher level, then it's not more efficient at all.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My math is not wrong at all DSM, yours is:

1.) You try to add an extra tick duration to the DoT's when that's not going to happen much of the time with how fast the group is killing single targets.

2.) You suddenly say you can do Bane + Ebolt every 30 seconds, which you can not. You don't have the mana.

3.) You ignore resists.

4.) You don't understand time expenditure. In your latest post you now claim you can throw in JBB, when that does nothing. If you are using JBB then you aren't doing Canni spam in that time allotment, which means you are losing mana.



Most of a Mage's DPS is from pet + unresistible damage shield.

If you compare their ideal direct-damage spell DPS, the Shaman is barely better than the Mage anyway in a group like this. Mage damage spells are more efficient on their own and they can use Manarobe between med ticks when they have free time for a bit of extra mana.



You don't have "double the resist chance" you idiot. Blast of Poison is simply flat-out better than Ebolt here. E-bolt is going to do the same amount of damage, since it doesn't have time to actually work fully, and cost you 320 mana rather than 200.



Ice Strike gets completely resisted by Velious giants.

You need to just stop embarrassing yourself.

If you are killing a mob at roughly 30 seconds, you will get the DoT ticks most of the time. If think the group is killing considerably faster than 30 seconds, name the time so I can adjust the spells accordingly hehe.

I am not ignoring resists. You simply don't seem to realize it would affect a Mage too. And since a Shaman can regenerate mana faster, it's less of an issue.

Bane cast is 5 seconds, E-Bolt cast is 6 seconds, JBB is 8 seconds. 20 seconds easily fits into 30 seconds lol. I do have the mana, it is not my fault you can't math.

We aren't talking about Velious giants lol. Ice immunity isn't really an issue in Seb, and your DoTs are generally more mana efficient than Blast of Poison unless you are killing really fast.

The problem here is you are assuming the group is always pulling mobs non-stop. The Shaman has time to recover during fights and in-between pulls. If you insist the group can pull that fast, the mobs must be really easy. The Shaman can simply root/rot mobs while waiting for the Enchanters to kill other mobs in that case. It would be more efficient to split up your efforts if you are killing that fast, and in that case a Shaman could do a lot more DPS for less mana with Epic clicks.

Other nukes are more efficient, so I have no idea what your Blast of Poison scenario would look like. You could Bane and then Ice Strike if you wanted to nuke instead. Ice Strike does 675 damage for 250 mana lol. Also, Ice Strike is 2.7 Damage per mana, not 2.03 lol. You are thinking of the wrong spell, probably Blizzard Blast.

For example, let's say your group only takes 20 seconds to kill a mob. 2x Ice Strikes (1350 / 20) is 67.5 DPS for 500 mana. That is even easier to canni back, and fits within the shorter time frame you are taking about.

You want to Bane + E-Bolt on a mob that is going to die in 30ish seconds so you have more recovery time while the mob is dying. It only takes 12 seconds for both casts, and you get at least 50 DPS out of it. You could 3x Ice Strike for 750 mana and get better DPS, but you would have less recovery time.

[Danth]

Magician with a 175K manna robe, 800K epic, raid loot click boots, etc had better be pretty flippin good. Sheesh, at pushing near to a cool million plat value not even counting any other spells or slots that makes a shaman look cheap. I think Troxx's more modest character is a much better representation of what we can consider baseline.

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wheres the spot in seb with a mob every 20 seconds,would needs to do king+ reet caves + every pather lol

Think a lot of folks are so used to "grind up levels, hit 60, retire and start new alt" that they perhaps aren't as used to doing stuff the way 60 smallmans usually do. Chain-killing is usually not needed and even fairly busy areas like Velketor Broodmother, a high-damage quad-man like this one is going to run out of mobs before the cycle starts anew. If you're more constantly in combat it's usually going to be something that's living for awhile.

Danth

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you are killing a mob at roughly 30 seconds, you will get the DoT ticks most of the time. If think the group is killing considerably faster than 30 seconds, name the time so I can adjust the spells accordingly hehe.

I already listed the accurate uptime of the DoT's. Single targets are generally dying faster than 30 seconds. E-bolt with 1 extra tick is still worse than Shock of Poison anyway.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not ignoring resists. You simply don't seem to realize it would affect a Mage too. And since a Shaman can regenerate mana faster, it's less of an issue.

You ARE ignoring resists. You keep claiming a certain DPS number when that is not accurate. Shaman "regenerating mana faster" is irrelevant. That's already factored into the equation of what the Shaman and Mage can do.

The accurate number is about 28 DPS from Shaman direct-damage spellcasting vs 25 for Mage. Then on top of that the Mage has their pet (60 DPS) + damage shield (15 DPS), compared to Shaman pet (12 DPS). That is 100 DPS for the Mage and 40 for the Shaman.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bane cast is 5 seconds, E-Bolt cast is 6 seconds, JBB is 8 seconds. 20 seconds easily fits into 30 seconds lol. I do have the mana, it is not my fault you can't math.

You are so fucking dumb.

1.) YOU YOURSELF ALREADY SAID YOU ONLY HAVE MANA TO DO BANE + E-BOLT EVERY 40 SECONDS.

2.) The amount of mana you have as a Shaman is dependent on your ability to spam Canni. If you are using JBB, then you are NOT using Canni spam in that time, thus losing a large amount of mana.

As I already said, the best DPS you're going to do is Bane (lasting 3 ticks) + Blast of Poison every 30 seconds.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We aren't talking about Velious giants lol.

Yes we were. I said Kael plate house when you said "there aren't enough MOBs to kill that frequently anyway". Although there is enough to kill in Seb basement anyway if you want to farm the entire thing.

The cold resist thing is irrelevant anyway though, because as I already showed the math for, Shock of Poison is already the top DPS a Shaman can create with direct damage spells. Their cold DD's are slower and thus effectively cost more mana since it's taking away from Canni usage time.