Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Parses please. No YouTube videos. Want to do both? Great! Include the videos. But concrete, hard objective data.

Time to stop farting around.

FYSA the parses I linked were seb crypt.

I will provide both, which will be far superior to your parses with missing data[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I will have the video, so you could double check all the numbers if you wanted to. Then the ball will be in your court if you want to dispute, because my data will be undisputable, while yours isn't.

[Troxx]

Gamparse is a good program. There are others out there but it does a good job. It has different viewing tabs to include one that gives you the spam of the raw logs. I recommend you turn on other’s damage hits so you can parse your group mates as well. Remember, the goal here is to see how much dps a shaman can do in a fast paced, fast killing full group. Mine included charm pet (most of the time), another mage with epic, and a tunare/ST monk other than myself.

That is the scope of this topic, this thread, and therefore the burden of proof is to show us how great your shaman is at doing it.

Regarding your disputable/undisputable jab, I can unfortunately predict where this is going. Once you fail to show that a shaman can keep up with respectable dps (or at least as good as you think you can) under these conditions I fully expect your next angle will to say that what I’ve provided (took all of 5 minutes to compile and another 5 to screenshot a jpg of) is “disputable”. I hope my prediction is wrong.

Sad thing is I have a shaman with all the same spells/levels and the same pet it’s yours. Your best bet is going to be slinging your highest hitting ice nuke repeatedly if mobs are dying fast. Bane and especially Pox are going to be underperforming mana hogs with high speed fights.

The question is will you be able to sling enough ice nukes frequently/fast enough (with canni mana regeneration advantage). Remember: mage nukes cast faster, hit harder, are more mana efficient. You’ll have more mana to play with but unlike your pet, the level 60 mage water pet isn’t a joke.

I’m interested in what you can put out over a long hall dps session sustainably fight after fight after fight and how it stacks up.

(Unfortunately I already know … because my 60 epic troll shaman has done this kind of exercise in the past).

Ps I recommend against spamming JBB as its dps won’t be nearly enough.

PPS: chain casting ice strike precisely every 7 seconds with no lag, fizzle, or partial resist has a 96 dps potential. Unfortunately you’ll have to be taking time to canni and torpor, so actual expected dps is going to be lower. Remember you got about 50dps worth of “bad pet” to make up the difference for before you actually start competing with mage DS and mage nukes.

I wish you luck and am very interested to see your findings. And remember!! While you are furiously mashing buttons non stop trying to put out these numbers, my mage did it causally chatting and peacefully meditating and checking the stock market … standing up to sling a few nukes. Super chill, very relaxing xp and loot grind session.

[Toxigen]

@DSM

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gamparse is a good program. There are others out there but it does a good job. It has different viewing tabs to include one that gives you the spam of the raw logs. I recommend you turn on other’s damage hits so you can parse your group mates as well. Remember, the goal here is to see how much dps a shaman can do in a fast paced, fast killing full group. Mine included charm pet (most of the time), another mage with epic, and a tunare/ST monk other than myself.

That is the scope of this topic, this thread, and therefore the burden of proof is to show us how great your shaman is at doing it.

Regarding your disputable/undisputable jab, I can unfortunately predict where this is going. Once you fail to show that a shaman can keep up with respectable dps (or at least as good as you think you can) under these conditions I fully expect your next angle will to say that what I’ve provided (took all of 5 minutes to compile and another 5 to screenshot a jpg of) is “disputable”. I hope my prediction is wrong.

Sad thing is I have a shaman with all the same spells/levels and the same pet it’s yours. Your best bet is going to be slinging your highest hitting ice nuke repeatedly if mobs are dying fast. Bane and especially Pox are going to be underperforming mana hogs with high speed fights.

The question is will you be able to sling enough ice nukes frequently/fast enough (with canni mana regeneration advantage). Remember: mage nukes cast faster, hit harder, are more mana efficient. You’ll have more mana to play with but unlike your pet, the level 60 mage water pet isn’t a joke.

I’m interested in what you can put out over a long hall dps session sustainably fight after fight after fight and how it stacks up.

(Unfortunately I already know … because my 60 epic troll shaman has done this kind of exercise in the past).

Ps I recommend against spamming JBB as its dps won’t be nearly enough.

PPS: chain casting ice strike precisely every 7 seconds with no lag, fizzle, or partial resist has a 96 dps potential. Unfortunately you’ll have to be taking time to canni and torpor, so actual expected dps is going to be lower. Remember you got about 50dps worth of “bad pet” to make up the difference for before you actually start competing with mage DS and mage nukes.

I wish you luck and am very interested to see your findings. And remember!! While you are furiously mashing buttons non stop trying to put out these numbers, my mage did it causally chatting and peacefully meditating and checking the stock market … standing up to sling a few nukes. Super chill, very relaxing xp and loot grind session.

You clearly don't understand math. If you math hard enough your shaman will outdps your mage while tanking and healing and debuffing and canni spamming all at the same time.

[Ripqozko]

Join VQ and be around DSM all the time, apply today

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your best bet is going to be slinging your highest hitting ice nuke repeatedly if mobs are dying fast. Bane and especially Pox are going to be underperforming mana hogs with high speed fights.

The question is will you be able to sling enough ice nukes frequently/fast enough (with canni mana regeneration advantage). Remember: mage nukes cast faster, hit harder, are more mana efficient. You’ll have more mana to play with but unlike your pet, the level 60 mage water pet isn’t a joke.

Yeah, rapid chain pulls tend to play to the magician's favor. The shaman'll like having moderate gaps where both might burst while in combat but afterward the shaman'll recover more quickly than the magician can.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, rapid chain pulls tend to play to the magician's favor. The shaman'll like having moderate gaps where both might burst while in combat but afterward the shaman'll recover more quickly than the magician can.

Do you even math ? Clearly you don’t understand math . It’s all written out if you look at the math . I’m not the troll, everyone else is clearly not reading the math .

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Ok got two videos and logs. As usual, the math is right lol. I am not sure why people think there is some mysticism here.

This test assumes no clickies and no mana regen buffs. The Shaman and the Mage are level 60. The test mob was https://wiki.project1999.com/A_Sebilite_Golem , which matches the level of the trash mobs in Crypt.

Based on Troxx's data, the average kill speed for his group was 36 seconds. So I am using that.

Shaman DPS = 17.7 from pet + 37.5 DPS at 2 Ice Strikes per 36 seconds for a total of 55.2 DPS. Mana lost: Rougly 1724 mana. The mana loss isn't 100% accurate since I needed to face tank the mob.

Mage DPS from Troxx logs: 56 DPS from pet + 23 DPS from shock of steel once per 36 seconds + 3.7 DPS from damage shield when getting hit 26 times over the entire video (logs show hits) for a total of 82.7 DPS. Mana lost is 2260, assuming the Mage is meditating at 8 ticks per minute (needs to stand up to nuke for 1-2 ticks).

No resists occurred on my Ice Strike spell. No partial resists occurred either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-g8Ywibztg - Pet DPS video, logs are attached in description.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XwiGKTuu2E - Shaman DPS video, logs are attached in description.

Shaman DPS is 55.2

Mage DPS is 82.7.

Difference is 27.5.

You decide whether roughly 30 DPS is worth a Mage[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As my other log data showed:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For Shaman DPS:

My Spells
=========
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:29 2022] You begin casting Bane of Nife.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:34 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 150 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:18 2022] Your Bane of Nife spell has worn off.

[Mon Aug 22 08:12:35 2022] You begin casting Envenomed Bolt.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:41 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 110 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] Your Envenomed Bolt spell has worn off.


[Mon Aug 22 08:13:19 2022] You begin casting Bane of Nife.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 150 points of damage.
30 seconds (6 Ticks)

[Mon Aug 22 08:13:25 2022] You begin casting Envenomed Bolt.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:31 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 110 points of damage.
24 seconds (4 Ticks)

Enemy Spells
=========
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] Froglok jin shaman feels much better. +270HP
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:32 2022] Froglok jin shaman feels much better. +270HP

Pet DPS
=========
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:21 2022] Xibarer kicks froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:21 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 13 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:23 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:23 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:24 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:25 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:26 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 24 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:26 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:28 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 13 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:29 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:31 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:31 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 16 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:33 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 34 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:35 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 17 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:42 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 18 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:43 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:44 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:45 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:47 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 39 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:47 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:49 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 24 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:52 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 41 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:53 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:54 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 30 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:54 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 28 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:56 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:58 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 20 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:01 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:03 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:05 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:06 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 30 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:12 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 41 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:12 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:15 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:17 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:19 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:19 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 17 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:21 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:22 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:26 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:29 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:30 2022] Xibarer kicks froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:31 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:31 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:33 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:33 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:35 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:35 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:36 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 13 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:36 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:38 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:40 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:40 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 15 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:41 2022] You bash froglok jin shaman for 1 point of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:42 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:44 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 21 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:44 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 24 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:45 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 34 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:47 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:51 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 34 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:51 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:51 2022] Xibarer kicks froglok jin shaman for 22 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:52 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 28 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:52 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 26 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:54 2022] You have slain froglok jin shaman!

6,549 damage over 93 seconds = 70.5 DPS

A Shaman's DPS increases as well if the fight lasts longer, which means they can use their DoTs. That was 70 DPS, no clickies. So the difference could shrink to about 10 DPS.

As you can see, the numbers are the same as the math I showed earlier. It is not "napkin math" lol, it is just math[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't walk it back to be honest. Someone simply pointed out that you could get a bit more DPS from clickies. It was a good point, and changes the equation a bit, but a Shaman can also get more DPS from clickies. My calculations for 80DPS vs. 70DPS weren't taking into account Shaman or Mage clickies. It wasn't a one sided shift.

Math-wise Mage and Shaman DPS doesn't have a vast gulf, like people have been trying to claim. The entire argument of bringing a Mage is Malo + Charm Break Safety + DPS. A Shaman has Malo + Charm Break Safety covered, and DPS wise the different isn't vast. A difference in 30 DPS isn't going to matter with two Charmed Enchanter pets. A Shaman is simply bringing a much broader toolkit to the table without a huge sacrifice in DPS.

I just want to point how how you continue to move the goalposts. You started out saying that a Shaman can out-DPS a Mage, then you shifted to saying the Shaman is "close enough" DPS to the Mage, now you are saying that a Shaman can also be casting slow and Malo as well as spamming a JBB, while still putting out DPS comparable to a Mage. The entire basis of your "math" argument rested on the fact that a Shaman can output respectable DPS across multiple rooted mobs IF YOU DO NOTHING BUT CAST DOTS AND CANNI/TORPOR NONSTOP. And yet you continue to pile on all these other things the Shaman is supposedly doing at the same time. It's almost as if you are dishonest, or more probably just have an enormous intellectual blind spot in this argument as a consequence of your "special" psychology.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A Mage's DPS is also going to be lower in a fight that is 20-30 seconds long

And here we see you don't even understand the concept of DPS, or at least how DPS works for a Mage compared to a Shaman. A Mage does not need his DoTs to ramp up over time the way a Shaman does with Epic, or with any DoT for that matter to get the full mana/HP value of the spell. The Mage pet is basically a chainsaw you aim at a mob and it does XXX damage every second it's attacking. It doesn't matter if it attacks the mob for 10 seconds or 1000 seconds. The DPS is the same because it always does XXX damage for every second its attacking (on average). And as long as the fight lasts long enough to get one clickie nuke from staff or boots, you are also getting the full DPS value from those items as well. And most importantly, all of that damage from the pet and the clickie nuke is MANA-FREE and can be sustained indefinitely with essentially zero effort besides two button clicks per mob. Meanwhile, you are apparently rooting, slowing, maloing, casting epic, JBB, Pox, Bane, Canni and Torpor all while maintaining DPS equivalent to a Mage who is using ZERO MANA. It's an asinine claim.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just want to point how how you continue to move the goalposts. You started out saying that a Shaman can out-DPS a Mage, then you shifted to saying the Shaman is "close enough" DPS to the Mage, now you are saying that a Shaman can also be casting slow and Malo as well as spamming a JBB, while still putting out DPS comparable to a Mage. The entire basis of your "math" argument rested on the fact that a Shaman can output respectable DPS across multiple rooted mobs IF YOU DO NOTHING BUT CAST DOTS AND CANNI/TORPOR NONSTOP. And yet you continue to pile on all these other things the Shaman is supposedly doing at the same time. It's almost as if you are dishonest, or more probably just have an enormous intellectual blind spot in this argument as a consequence of your "special" psychology.



And here we see you don't even understand the concept of DPS, or at least how DPS works for a Mage compared to a Shaman. A Mage does not need his DoTs to ramp up over time the way a Shaman does with Epic, or with any DoT for that matter to get the full mana/HP value of the spell. The Mage pet is basically a chainsaw you aim at a mob and it does XXX damage every second it's attacking. It doesn't matter if it attacks the mob for 10 seconds or 1000 seconds. The DPS is the same because it always does XXX damage for every second its attacking (on average). And as long as the fight lasts long enough to get one clickie nuke from staff or boots, you are also getting the full DPS value from those items as well. And most importantly, all of that damage from the pet and the clickie nuke is MANA-FREE and can be sustained indefinitely with essentially zero effort besides two button clicks per mob. Meanwhile, you are apparently rooting, slowing, maloing, casting epic, JBB, Pox, Bane, Canni and Torpor all while maintaining DPS equivalent to a Mage who is using ZERO MANA. It's an asinine claim.

Just read my previous post (the one above yours). I have the data in it. You were replying a bit too late[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Sorry you're so mad.