Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Gloomlord]

I mean, I don't care what kind of "data" he provides. Common sense dictates that, with two hasted charms and a Cleric, Shaman DPS and healing is completely irrelevant. DoTs will be completely mana inefficient, and Shaman nukes have mediocre at best mana/damage coefficients . Torpor is also completely outdone by Complete Heal, so their healing is completely meaningless.

Why is he completely ignoring this fact over and over again?

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean, I don't care what kind of "data" he provides. Common sense dictates that, with two hasted charms and a Cleric, Shaman DPS and healing is completely irrelevant. DoTs will be completely mana inefficient, and Shaman nukes have mediocre at best mana/damage coefficients . Torpor is also completely outdone by Complete Heal, so their healing is completely meaningless.

Why is he completely ignoring this fact over and over again?

Because mental illness. Get ready for a wall of text of useless data.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean, I don't care what kind of "data" he provides. Common sense dictates that, with two hasted charms and a Cleric, Shaman DPS and healing is completely irrelevant. DoTs will be completely mana inefficient, and Shaman nukes have mediocre at best mana/damage coefficients . Torpor is also completely outdone by Complete Heal, so their healing is completely meaningless.

Why is he completely ignoring this fact over and over again?

I am not ignoring these facts. You are simply too blinded by your bias against me to read my posts properly, or think objectively.

I'll give you a simple example. The reason why Torpor is advantageous (even with a cleric) is because having two healers means two people can get healed at the same time. In a caster group, you don't really need to CH your party members. When a character only has 2000HP, Torpor is actually more efficient. CH is 5.7 HP per mana, and Torpor is 6 HP per mana. If a charm break occurs and the Enchanter loses half their life, the Shaman can Torpor the Enchanter while the Cleric is CHing the other pet. Since casters aren't attacking with melee anyway, the melee slow is irrelevant.

I have already shown you the DPS data, and the mana data is also easy to calculate. You don't just get to say "you are wrong" and get away with it. If you think my math or data is flawed, you need to explain why and provide evidence.

I do agree with you, the DPS of the fourth player is largely irrelevant in a group with two Enchanter pets and a Cleric. I said so earlier in the thread. But if that is the case... then Mage DPS is also largely irrelevant. You don't get to claim Mage DPS is better just because it is Mage DPS. If you don't need 50 DPS, you probably don't need 80 DPS either. If you take DPS off the table, Shamans win in the Charm Safety and Malo department. So there doesn't seem to be a reason to pick Mage, unless you need CoTH.

[Gloomlord]

The CH is healing the pets...

What the hell are you talking about?! The other casters just get a more quick pop up heal. Why is Torpor a factor here, exactly? If the two enchanters and cleric is on point, healing the charm break isn't much of a factor where Torpor would be considered. All three classes have stuns.

How is shaman DPS a factor over a really good pet that you only need to press a button to unleash hell upon? There is no mana to regen, so over time it's going to be more efficient than anything the shaman can pump out.

Are you factoring shaman DPS in relation to a scenario completely unrelated to two enchanters obliterating mobs one by one? If so, your data is completely irrelevant.

Your maths mean nothing when you completely ignore this factor.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not ignoring these facts.

Hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

as the data shows.

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...401629&page=37.

How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The CH is healing the pets...

What the hell are you talking about?! The other casters just get a more quick pop up heal. Why is Torpor a factor here, exactly? If the two enchanters and cleric is on point, healing the charm break isn't much of a factor where Torpor would be considered. All three classes have stuns.

How is shaman DPS a factor over a really good pet that you only need to press a button to unleash hell upon? There is no mana to regen, so over time it's going to be more efficient than anything the shaman can pump out.

Are you factoring shaman DPS in relation to a scenario completely unrelated to two enchanters obliterating mobs one by one? If so, your data is completely irrelevant.

Your maths mean nothing when you completely ignore this factor.

... I said the CH is for healing the pets. This is why I keep saying you don't read my posts. You obviously didn't read my post lol.

I have already shown you the DPS data. The difference is 20-30 DPS between a Mage and a Shaman. If you think this is wrong, you need to provide better data.

If a group doesn't care about 50 DPS, they don't care about 80 DPS. This is really simple. DPS is DPS. A Mage's DPS is not special or unique.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you need to provide better data

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

as the data shows

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...401629&page=37.

How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?

[Gloomlord]

I did read your post. You said: "You don't need really need CH for your party members".

No shit, CSM. Why was that point relevant to anything? A shaman with torpor doesn't mean anything, regardless.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did read your post. You said: "You don't need really need CH for your party members".

No shit, CSM. Why was that point relevant to anything? A shaman with torpor doesn't mean anything, regardless.

It's really simple. CH takes 10 seconds to cast. If the Cleric is in the process of healing a pet, they cannot stun, or heal another character[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] The Shaman can heal the Enchanter who took 1000 damage while the Cleric is stunning or CHing. That adds extra safety to the group that the Mage cannot provide.

And as you say, if the group is satisfied with the Enchanter DPS, you wouldn't care about the Mage's DPS.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's really simple.

All I can do is re-state the facts in continued effort to attempt to continue the discussion(s) in a civil manner. The ball is in DSM's court.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

as the data shows

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You called me "silly" when you were backed into a corner by my replies to you on the below thread too, and you stopped replying (like a little bitch): https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...401629&page=37.

How's it going in that corner you've been backed into?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am maintaining civility in this discussion, and my position is founded on hard evidence. The only insults I throw are thrown in defense.

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, you have not maintained civility in this discussion.

I have maintained civility in my posts to you - in which I have ONLY stated facts and asked questions - and despite my civility you have (repeatedly) called me a troll, called me silly, accused me of doing/posting things I have not done/posted, and meanwhile have continued to ignore my simple questions and avoided responding to the many facts I've stated. I present both of our posts - from this thread and elsewhere - as evidence of my civility, and you have provided no counterevidence despite me requesting you provide it (multiple times).

Why do you opt out of partaking in a civil discussion with me, and meanwhile claim that you are maintaining civility in this discussion (yet choose to continue to call me names for [seemingly] no reason)?


Why do you feel the need to "defend yourself" from any of the facts I have stated or questions I have asked?