How about...(raidmobs)

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree, you realize that they'd have to spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week on every spawn they wanted to poopsock? I'm as hard core as the next power gamer, but that simply isn't possible. Even with the 15 man rule that would mean 15 people actively online in one spot for.. well, ever. I'm willing to bet 100k that no guild would do that. What would happen is guilds would find a location that they feel allowed them the quickest access to the mobs they want. Maybe people would camp down in trak's lair, but unless they plan on spending every waking second down there for the rest of the time they play here, they're going to leave eventually. I honestly think it would force guilds into mobilization more - while Trak's lair might be the home base for guilds to mobilize from, the poopsocking would have to essentially end.

No, because you will get the same escalation from the "Must deny other guild, must get target ourselves at all costs" mentality that currently exists.

You start with mobilization. One guild is better at it than others, so the other guild says "Welp, we want to beat them to the raid targets, and we know they're all camped at the ledge, so we will poopsock in-game to beat them."

So then the "competition" changes from "who can mobilize faster", which TR wants to compete on (obviously because they have the advantage there), to "who can kill the raid target". Then, TR's advantage is removed and they invariably troll the other guild for not being able to out-mobilize them. But the game is about who kills the target and gets the loot, not a game of "who can race to their computers and log in their fully buffed raid force first upon batphone signal". TR tried to make the competition about that because that is their forte. In reality, it all comes down to who gets the kill.

So the poopsocking starts, and then TR realizes they're at a disadvantage unless they do the same thing. So they start poopsocking, too. But because the prevalent attitude is "VP is the end goal, loot > all, deny the other guild at all costs", then you can't afford to not be there poopsocking along with the other guild. Regardless of the variance.

Because you're not going to sit there and tell me there's some magical % variance that guilds will automatically stop poopsocking the primary target that they want to kill before the other guild at all costs. Because "more time invested yields greater rewards" is still hard-wired into your brains.

So then both guilds are back at poopsocking, trying to get the mob engaged before the other guild as soon as it spawns. You can't afford not to be there if another guild is willing to poopsock at 50%, 75%, or even 100% variance. One accuses the other of creating the poopsocking situation, when in reality it was just a normal response to "do what it takes to get the mob before the other guys do". They aren't going to compete against TR at mobilization. Why should they? They'd rather force TR into a Mexican poopsock standoff and try to burn TR out before they get burnt out.

Then, the first guild that gets burned out has to merge/mass-recruit and the other guild's response is to immediately brand them as zerglings.

Then that other guild realizes they are no longer competitive because they just burnt a subset of their guild out during Poopsock Wars II: The Feces Strikes Back. Then THEY have to merge/mass-recruit.

And then the cycle begins again, burning people out faster than should be normal because the mentalities of both guilds require them both to not stand down and yield raid targets to the other guild. Ever wonder why we're still around 750 players online prime time? Probably because this server can never grow past that critical mass due to the tier 1 guilds creating situations against each other that burn players out. How awesome is that for the health of the server? Great job, munchkins.

[Alarti0001]

This is EQ not WOW why are we talking about trak dropping 15-50 keys. On live there were many guilds who never saw VP until luclin or later.

If you want VP keys get your guild, or get in a guild that can take trak.
Everything shouldn't be handed to you.

Trak today TR was killing juggs with about 15 and TMO had maybe 8 on tracking or afk. No one was on spawn... problem solved... lets move on.

[Loke]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lots

If you seriously think there is anyone who is willing to spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week sitting on a spawn, you're delusional. You realize that is what someone would have to do to poopsock with a 100% variance right? I feel this is a pretty simple concept.

Just yes or no, do you sincerely believe either guild is willing to spend the rest of their natural lives logged in sitting at trak's spawn point? If so, maybe us power gamers aren't the ones with the fucked up perspective here lol.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you seriously think there is anyone who is willing to spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week sitting on a spawn, you're delusional. You realize that is what someone would have to do to poopsock with a 100% variance right? I feel this is a pretty simple concept.

Just yes or no, do you sincerely believe either guild is willing to spend the rest of their natural lives logged in sitting at trak's spawn point? If so, maybe us power gamers aren't the ones with the fucked up perspective here lol.

Yes. Based on what the "whatever it takes to get the trak teeth" attitude we've seen so far here, I absolutely believe it will escalate to one guild starting to poopsock the mob after it dies in case it spawns back to back, and causing the other guild to respond by poopsocking because in their minds they can't afford to let the other guild have Trakanon.

YOU personally might not do it, but has either guild given any of us a reason to believe that this would not happen? Has either guild backed down? Has either guild said anything but "Yeah, poopsocking sucks, but we need to engage before the other guild, so sit your asses right on that spawn point and hit TAB and auto-attack for hours on end!"?

It has escalated to this now, both guilds say they hate doing it, but both guilds hate the thought of the other guild getting the trak teeth EVEN MORE.

Someone from a guild who answers the 3am batphone and just spend how many days/nights of the last few weeks trying to out-poopsock another guild in a emulated version of a 11-year old game calling ME delusional? C'mon now, Loke. I'M the one laughing at your poop-filled socks. To each their own, I guess. /sigh

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Based on what the "whatever it takes to get the trak teeth" attitude we've seen so far here, I absolutely believe it will escalate to one guild starting to poopsock the mob after it dies in case it spawns back to back, and causing the other guild to respond by poopsocking because in their minds they can't afford to let the other guild have Trakanon.

YOU personally might not do it, but has either guild given any of us a reason to believe that this would not happen? Has either guild backed down? Has either guild said anything but "Yeah, poopsocking sucks, but we need to engage before the other guild, so sit your asses right on that spawn point and hit TAB and auto-attack for hours on end!"?

It has escalated to this now, both guilds say they hate doing it, but both guilds hate the thought of the other guild getting the trak teeth EVEN MORE.

huh?

[Skope]

Loke, how many times has this shit happened and now you think the outcome will be different? fucking get over it.

Here's some things you may already know but won't admit to yourself or your guildies

- Nobody is impressed with your dragon loot.
- Everyone thinks you're losers for losing sleep over mobs you've killed a million times and loot you'll give to your alts or sell in EC.
- you can have all the try-hards. in fact, please point them out to me before they apply to divinity and let other guilds know as well. i'll be sure to send them your way
- you've done this shit for more than a year and still haven't had your fill
- you two guilds will bump heads, spill it over on the forums and think that the rest of us give 2 shits. we don't. sometimes it's entertaining, most of the time it's annoying.
- the server would probably be better off without every single TMO/TR member, except xzerion, karsten, tiggles and knuckle. why? because xzerion actually does good and the rest are pretty cool guys who doesn't afraid of anything.
- you've been the laughing stock of the server for how long now?
- it's EQ. it's not hard. you get 8 spells/abilities and you use 5 of them at most. congratulations.

you will eventually poopsock trak just to cockblock. you already have your keys and you're doing it now. changing the variance doesn't change the fact that you're assholes to each other and in turn the rest of the server. we'd all be better off without either of you. please go away

[Anger]

This thread seems serious enough.

Tags reserved.

[Ektar]

The many misconceptions of the nonhardcore raider!

Or what I label it from my own experiences and assign it arbitrarily to the general case.

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- Nobody is impressed with your dragon loot.

First, that's simply not true. I've had people marvel at my FA/LR/DE mask.
Second, I don't give a shit. Do you think I wasted so much of my life ensuring server first FA so I could go around telling people it's the first one? (not that I haven't done that..) I did it because it was a childhood fantasy. I did it for myself.

So not saying it was a childhood fantasy of mine to poopsock classic eq raid mobs, but ya know.

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- Everyone thinks you're losers for losing sleep over mobs you've killed a million times and loot you'll give to your alts or sell in EC.

An example being the VP picture on the TR website - they don't give a fuck.

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- you can have all the try-hards. in fact, please point them out to me before they apply to divinity and let other guilds know as well. i'll be sure to send them your way

Do it, brew. No paladins.

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- you've done this shit for more than a year and still haven't had your fill

See 1

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- you two guilds will bump heads, spill it over on the forums and think that the rest of us give 2 shits. we don't. sometimes it's entertaining, most of the time it's annoying.

Well this one is probably right [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
edit: At first I figured this was right. But honestly? So many non tmo/tr chime into these threads that you'd think... man, maybe they don't not care? Be honest with yourself, if you didn't care you wouldn't throw your thoughts into the ring. I don't care in what way you care - you don't have to be like "oh em gee I want trak too," but you obviously care in some way.

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- you've been the laughing stock of the server for how long now?

See 2

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- it's EQ. it's not hard. you get 8 spells/abilities and you use 5 of them at most. congratulations.

Oversimplification is implicit in this condescending verbiage.

How could I be so amazing and others suck so hard at this game if it were that simple?

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Ektar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How could I be so amazing and others suck so hard at this game if it were that simple?

time invested. and ektar, don't tell me for a second they don't wank themselves off at the pixels they get. it's been a shitfest for raiding since poopsock last summer with momentary lapses of normality, quickly fucked by "must do anything to make sure we're #1 and they aren't." nobody cares but these 2 groups of people and they feed off each other.

The fact that a select few assholes want to consider this their job doesn't mean the entire server has to bow down and listen to their shit. I don't give 2 shits about TR or TMO, IB/DA, the pricks that run these guilds or their dragon/god loot, but i feel as if it's the same old shit over again and the server is worse off for it. The pop is down, people quit and you're not seeing as many new faces as you once did. Is this all attributed to this crap? no, certainly not, but some of it is. i don't have much time anymore, but even when i do i find it hard to muster up the will to log in anymore. it's their shit that can make this a sad and depressing place to be. the others are a string of those broken patches we had that made some classes completely unplayable for weeks, the time it takes to invest into raiding because you two won't go outside and want to ruin it for everyone else, and the fact that the GMs/guides have let it get this far. it's all disappoint. sometimes i wish uthgaard would approach the bickering between you two the way he approaches single-player disputes: ban you both for not shutting the fuck up. btw, uth, i think you're a pussy for not doing it. if that shit could have been handled before a petition was sent in, it should have been handled before a petition was sent in. the mere fact that it wasn't means they're not willing to talk, and yet they want to discuss rules. are you serious?

i say their shit, because you're not one of them anymore, ektar. you were once and maybe you can see if only for a second just how silly this shit really is

[azeth]

Originally Posted by JenJen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I fail to understand why rotation isnt considered appealing? or is VP not rotationable?

There are 2 main reasons why rotations do not work, or aren't seriously considered:

1. At no point will the 2-3 guilds in question share an equal amount of kills ( 2 guilds 50/50, 3 guilds 33/34/33 etc). So, whichever guild is getting the lion's share has far less reason to consider rotating with the lesser competitors. It doesn't matter whether the power balance shifts every now and then, 1 guild will always be the 60+/40-.

2. On P99, right now, the second reason is less meaningful because there truely are only 2 guilds capable of fielding #s to kill Trakanon/eventually VP. However, often rotations fail due to the rotation having not accounted for other guilds who may start taking their shots are "your" or "their" targets.