This is Dumb

[Allishia]

Pretty sure its based off mobs HP. The agro gets better on higher HP mobs...but ya I was going oom trying to keep mobs on my 47 so in stables.

Disease cloud does nothing, I just used the ac tap cause was less mana than atk tap. It works ok but was still having to put 2-3 cast on every mob to hold it + dpsing with rocksmasher aary 2hb.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Allishia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pretty sure its based off mobs HP. The agro gets better on higher HP mobs...but ya I was going oom trying to keep mobs on my 47 so in stables.

Disease cloud does nothing, I just used the ac tap cause was less mana than atk tap. It works ok but was still having to put 2-3 cast on every mob to hold it + dpsing with rocksmasher aary 2hb.

I think the issue is the scale for mob hp is broken.

IIRC max aggro should be achieved on mobs with hp in the ball park of the higher level DL giants.

I wouldn't be surprised if the implementation here doesn't achieve max aggro until the mobs have 10s of thousands of hp instead.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The notion that shadow knights should be expected to struggle with aggro until level 50+ due to HP scaling is absurd and nothing like the original game was.

Original game vast majority of people were using like 6/27 weapons til pas their teens. Of course it was easier for low level SKs to keep aggro against this instead of rogues backstabbing with 13 dmg weapons.

Originally Posted by Octavian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Others have already posted enormous chains of old zam comments about DC being primary aggro and generating massive hate during the Velious era.

The comments said things like it needed to be repeatedly cast. Obviously the current implementation seems to have underboiled the egg, but the previous was equally wrong.

2 DCs and MAYBE a shadow and you were keeping aggro an entire fight versus very twinked out melees. I don't think that fell under the scope of 'repeatedly'?

Originally Posted by wuanahto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am more curious about the proc part of the change. My level 15 dwarf war on green just got a pair of obsidian daggers

Obsidian daggers won't be effective at this point in the servers, even pre nerf. Maybe offhand one while your dual wield doesn't produce many swings (they can proc even if they don't swing), but you need a much better ratio primary to generate consistent white aggro.

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the issue is the scale for mob hp is broken.

IIRC max aggro should be achieved on mobs with hp in the ball park of the higher level DL giants.

I wouldn't be surprised if the implementation here doesn't achieve max aggro until the mobs have 10s of thousands of hp instead.



Original game vast majority of people were using like 6/27 weapons til pas their teens. Of course it was easier for low level SKs to keep aggro against this instead of rogues backstabbing with 13 dmg weapons.




The comments said things like it needed to be repeatedly cast. Obviously the current implementation seems to have underboiled the egg, but the previous was equally wrong.

2 DCs and MAYBE a shadow and you were keeping aggro an entire fight versus very twinked out melees. I don't think that fell under the scope of 'repeatedly'?




Obsidian daggers won't be effective at this point in the servers, even pre nerf. Maybe offhand one while your dual wield doesn't produce many swings (they can proc even if they don't swing), but you need a much better ratio primary to generate consistent white aggro.

💯☝️🏎🥇

[long.liam]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the issue is the scale for mob hp is broken.

IIRC max aggro should be achieved on mobs with hp in the ball park of the higher level DL giants.

I wouldn't be surprised if the implementation here doesn't achieve max aggro until the mobs have 10s of thousands of hp instead.



Original game vast majority of people were using like 6/27 weapons til pas their teens. Of course it was easier for low level SKs to keep aggro against this instead of rogues backstabbing with 13 dmg weapons.




The comments said things like it needed to be repeatedly cast. Obviously the current implementation seems to have underboiled the egg, but the previous was equally wrong.

2 DCs and MAYBE a shadow and you were keeping aggro an entire fight versus very twinked out melees. I don't think that fell under the scope of 'repeatedly'?




Obsidian daggers won't be effective at this point in the servers, even pre nerf. Maybe offhand one while your dual wield doesn't produce many swings (they can proc even if they don't swing), but you need a much better ratio primary to generate consistent white aggro.

The formula for Spell Effect hate is Mob HP/15, so to hit the max of 1200 you would need to cast on a mob with at least 18,000 HP.

[long.liam]

Also, there is a ton of evidence that Spells debuff spell effect hate is supposed to scale based off of level. Many of them from the EQ devs in Era:

"--- We've capped the amount of hate that can be awarded to most
casters, specifically for debuff-type spells like the Malo and Tash
series. The hate calculation for these spells takes into account the
number of hitpoints of the NPC and did not "play nice" with the
increased HP limit of Velious. It explains why Enchanters, for
instance, would complain that casting a Tash spell would lead to near-
instant death."

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/his...es-2001-1.html

This has been well researched before. It would take take a ton evidence from Player logs in Era and developer posts in era to convince P99 Devs that this change is wrong. The only thing is broken right now is the Disease and Poison counter hate was mistakenly removed for some reason.

[Octavian]

Originally Posted by long.liam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, there is a ton of evidence that Spells debuff spell effect hate is supposed to scale based off of level. Many of them from the EQ devs in Era:

"--- We've capped the amount of hate that can be awarded to most
casters, specifically for debuff-type spells like the Malo and Tash
series. The hate calculation for these spells takes into account the
number of hitpoints of the NPC and did not "play nice" with the
increased HP limit of Velious. It explains why Enchanters, for
instance, would complain that casting a Tash spell would lead to near-
instant death."

https://everquest.allakhazam.com/his...es-2001-1.html

This has been well researched before. It would take take a ton evidence from Player logs in Era and developer posts in era to convince P99 Devs that this change is wrong. The only thing is broken right now is the Disease and Poison counter hate was mistakenly removed for some reason.

For sure, this agrees with the point of this thread - fix disease cloud. It should still be our primary aggro spell and it should work well.

[Drueric]

I thought warriors were the ones designed to taunt and hold boss agro in raids. I mean, if sk's are expecting to have this role(casting their newb level spells), then what are warriors good for? I mean if there is bug here, then it needs to be fixed. What is the bug? Im only asking because this is the bugs section.

[Octavian]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The comments said things like it needed to be repeatedly cast. Obviously the current implementation seems to have underboiled the egg, but the previous was equally wrong.

2 DCs and MAYBE a shadow and you were keeping aggro an entire fight versus very twinked out melees. I don't think that fell under the scope of 'repeatedly'?

Depends on the fight... if I'm grouped and the mob is gonna die in <30sec, then yeah 1-2 DC's was prob sufficient. However, for raids I was not only spamming DC but using GCD to weave other spells in for extra hate, all of which was necessary. Your assessment is a gross oversimplification and really only applies to shorter duration fights. No SK on P99 would have held aggro on a raid target for >a minute or two with 1-2 DC casts prior to the patch.

The way DC was functioning was as intended. It worked extremely well in group situations (SK's have always been group tank gods) and it required nonstop spamming during raid tanking. There was nothing about it that needed to be changed, and live EQ only dropped it when they were ready to implement its replacement, the terror line, which preserved SK's as aggro gods.