Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The number of posts you have in this thread is 376, which is basically your entire post count.

You have no posts that contain any evidence for anything you are saying. I am not sure what you are trying to argue here. If your point is that every claim needs some evidence, you need to start that first. I have provided multiple pieces of evidence for multiple claims thus far.

The evidence which proves you have made tens? hundreds? of posts claiming that Shamans can improve group DPS by Root Rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group - while providing exactly zero evidence that your Shaman has ever done such a thing, much less that it is a common/frequent occurrence - is this entire thread.

Furthermore, I have made no claims in this thread, I have only stated irrefutable facts - like the above - and asked simple questions.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The evidence which proves you have made tens? hundreds? of posts claiming that Shamans can improve group DPS by Root Rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group - while providing exactly zero evidence that your Shaman has ever done such a thing, much less that it is a common/frequent occurrence - is this entire thread.

Furthermore, I have made no claims in this thread, I have only stated irrefutable facts - like the above - and asked simple questions.

Simply saying you haven't made any claims doesn't mean anything. You seem to have forgotten what you posted two pages ago:

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cleric is simply safer & more reliable than Shaman, because a Cleric's superior utility over a Shaman's simply offers safer & more reliable solutions to inevitable deaths/wipes, which Shaman's toolkit simply has no answer for.

Where is your evidence for that?

I predict your next post will not contain any evidence, and you will simply try to redirect asking for evidence back to me.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Simply saying you haven't made any claims doesn't mean anything. You seem to have forgotten what you posted two pages ago:
Where is your evidence for that?

Perhaps you ignored my previous post in which I explained that the reason I stated the objective fact that Clerics are safer & more reliable (than Shaman in particular) is that Clerics simply have tools (Paci, Atone, Rez) which Shamans simply do not have, that make Clerics safer and more reliable for their group in the face of - inevitable - deaths & wipes:

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It seems you might have missed where Vexenu said "how many valuable targets can we safely and reliably kill" in their post. Even discounting stuns and CH, a Cleric is simply safer and more reliable than a Shaman because the Cleric class can Pacify, Atone & Rez and therefore, even if the group nearly wipes they can camp the cleric & log back in to rez & recover. This means even if the Cleric is the only person in the 4-man group who survived, the group with Cleric healer has a non-zero chance to recover their entire group then-and-there, without needing to find and/or wait (AND/OR PAY) for rezzes, drags or corpse summons, etc. The Shaman toolkit doesn't have an answer for this scenario and the Cleric's does. It's as simple as that.

Additional evidence can be found in Cleric spellbooks (and NOT Shaman spellbooks) or I guess you can refer to the Wiki for the level at which Cleric receives the relevant spells if that is important to you. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I predict your next post will not contain any evidence, and you will simply try to redirect asking for evidence back to me.

Just in case you also ignored these -

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

# of posts about Shamans improving the DPS of their group via Root-Rotting mulitple mobs parallel to the group: tens? hundreds?

# of posts including evidence of such: 0

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The evidence which proves you have made tens? hundreds? of posts claiming that Shamans can improve group DPS by Root Rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group - while providing exactly zero evidence that your Shaman has ever done such a thing, much less that it is a common/frequent occurrence - is this entire thread.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Perhaps you ignored my previous post in which I explained that the reason I stated the objective fact that Clerics are safer & more reliable (than Shaman in particular) is that Clerics simply have tools (Paci, Atone, Rez) which Shamans simply do not have, that make Clerics safer and more reliable for their groups in the face of - inevitable - deaths & wipes:



Additional evidence can be found in Cleric spellbooks or I guess you can refer to the Wiki for the level at which Cleric receives the relevant spells if that is so important to you. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]



Just in case you also ignored these -




[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for doing exactly what I predicted.

You are not simply stating an objective fact that certain spells are available to Clerics and not Shamans.

You are making the claim that a Cleric's unique spells are superior to a Shaman's unique spells when it comes to safety and reliability. You need evidence for that claim, which I know you will not provide.

This is why I do not need to continue responding to you. If you actually provide evidence for the claim that a Cleric's spells are superior to a Shaman's when it comes to safety and reliability, we can talk.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for doing exactly what I predicted.

I provided the evidence you requested, you simply have not done the same. You're welcome?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are not simply stating an objective fact that certain spells are available to Clerics and not Shamans.

Huh? those spells exist in Cleric spellbooks, and not Shamans. It's an objective fact.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are making the claim that a Cleric's unique spells are superior to a Shaman's unique spells when it comes to safety and reliability. You need evidence for that claim, which I know you will not provide.

If I were to make a claim it would be that Clerics unique spells are superior to a Shaman's unique spells when it comes to safety and reliability AND the hypothetical group which the Shaman or Cleric are being compared/judged/assessed the capabilities for already consists of 2 Enchanters - which has been an accepted part of this discussion for many - hundreds? thousands? - of posts. I cannot help it if context is lost on you amidst of all of your goalpost moving, flip-flopping and disingenuous arguing while providing zero relevant evidence to support your claims lol.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is why I do not need to continue responding to you. If you actually provide evidence for the claim that a Cleric's spells are superior to a Shaman's when it comes to safety and reliability, we can talk.

You do not need to continue responding at all. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you do though, you might consider posting evidence of your Shaman improving group DPS by Root Rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group, as you fervently argued you can/could for tens? hundreds? of posts. If you can actually provide evidence for that claim, we can talk. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

# of posts about Shamans improving the DPS of their group via Root-Rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group: tens? hundreds?

# of posts including evidence of such: 0

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The evidence which proves you have made tens? hundreds? of posts claiming that Shamans can improve group DPS by Root Rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group - while providing exactly zero evidence that your Shaman has ever done such a thing, much less that it is a common/frequent occurrence - is this entire thread.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for doing exactly what I predicted.

You are not simply stating an objective fact that certain spells are available to Clerics and not Shamans.

You are making the claim that a Cleric's unique spells are superior to a Shaman's unique spells when it comes to safety and reliability. You need evidence for that claim, which I know you will not provide.

This is why I do not need to continue responding to you. If you actually provide evidence for the claim that a Cleric's spells are superior to a Shaman's when it comes to safety and reliability, we can talk.

Oh this one is easy.

Complete heal is superior to torpor. It can’t be dispelled, and heals for much more And scales better with velious gear and charmed mob health. Also depending on server ticks it might actually land before torpor does.

Clerics also have stun command. Arguably the best tool for a charm break. Shamans can’t really do much there, especially with disease aggro nerfed. Much safer to stun and recharm then try to out torpor a quadding fully hasted pet. And they can give the enchanter a much bigger hp pool as well for extra safety.

Clerics simply have more utility at their disposal than a shaman. Shamans biggest thing is Slow. But this is largely irrelevant with an enchanter. And If you really need malo, just Invite a mage for mala and superior dps. A cleric can also blur a mob and reset an entire fight if needed.

It’s really that simple. There’s simply no need for a shaman in this group comp. This is why you see the majority of shamans soloing in the end game.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh this one is easy.

Complete heal is superior to torpor. It can’t be dispelled, and heals for much more And scales better with velious gear and charmed mob health. Also depending on server ticks it might actually land before torpor does.

Clerics also have stun command. Arguably the best tool for a charm break. Shamans can’t really do much there, especially with disease aggro nerfed. Much safer to stun and recharm then try to out torpor a quadding fully hasted pet. And they can give the enchanter a much bigger hp pool as well for extra safety.

Clerics simply have more utility at their disposal than a shaman. Shamans biggest thing is
Slow. But this is largely irrelevant with an enchanter. And If you really need malo, just
Invite a mage for mala and superior dps.

It’s really that simple. There’s simply no need for a shaman in this group comp. This is why you see the majority of shamans soloing in the end game.

Complete Heal is better in certain scenarios. Torpor + Slow will work just fine for the vast majority of content this group will be doing. You aren't healing a discing Warrior. It's mostly used to keep the same pet, which can be accomplished by a Shaman tanking. You need to give specific examples of a camp that is unslowable and need a Cleric to CH the pet for survivability purposes.

Stun Command is a great spell, but it has a 30 second cooldown. Shamans can slow the charm break if it's bad, root, or heal. Stuns also don't work on mobs level 55+, so it isn't like you can use it in every scenario.

Slow is not irrelevant when you can slow instead of the Enchanter. It saves them mana, and allows them to cast other spells while you are slowing. More Enchanter mana means the Enchanter can cast more spells in an emergency. Shamans also have a better slow than Enchanters. Same with Malo, Shaman Malo is better than Mage Mala.

Enchanters also do a lot of soloing at 60, that doesn't mean they are bad in groups.

I am still waiting on evidence for these kinds of claims. Again, I am not saying Clerics are bad. They are a great option. You are the one making the claim that Clerics will be far superior, and Shamans can't compete.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...78&postcount=6

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Level a cleric and have people log it in as needed. I have an epic cleric that’s been 54 since 2014 and he has done countless rezzes. Just a phenomenal class that everyone should have at least one of.

Thanks for agreeing with me about pocket Clerics by the way.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am still waiting on evidence for these kinds of claims.

I am still waiting on evidence of your Shaman Root Rotting multiple mobs parallel to your group - and have been waiting on that evidence for nearly a year now.

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

# of posts about Shamans improving the DPS of their group via Root-Rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group: tens? hundreds?

# of posts including evidence of such: 0

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The evidence which proves you have made tens? hundreds? of posts claiming that Shamans can improve group DPS by Root Rotting multiple mobs parallel to the group - while providing exactly zero evidence that your Shaman has ever done such a thing, much less that it is a common/frequent occurrence - is this entire thread.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Complete Heal is better in certain scenarios. Torpor + Slow will work just fine for the vast majority of content this group will be doing. You aren't healing a discing Warrior. It's mostly used to keep the same pet, which can be accomplished by a Shaman tanking. You need to give specific examples of a camp that is unslowable and need a Cleric to CH the pet for survivability purposes.

Stun Command is a great spell, but it has a 30 second cooldown. Shamans can slow the charm break if it's bad, root, or heal. Stuns also don't work on mobs level 55+, so it isn't like you can use it in every scenario.

Slow is not irrelevant when you can slow instead of the Enchanter. It saves them mana, and allows them to cast other spells while you are slowing. More Enchanter mana means the Enchanter can cast more spells in an emergency. Shamans also have a better slow than Enchanters. Same with Malo, Shaman Malo is better than Mage Mala.
Enchanters also do a lot of soloing at 60, that doesn't mean they are bad in groups.

I am still waiting on evidence for these kinds of claims. Again, I am not saying Clerics are bad. They are a great option. You are the one making the claim that Clerics will be far superior, and Shamans can't compete.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...78&postcount=6



Thanks for agreeing with me about pocket Clerics by the way.

It’s cute that you are searching other non related threads to try and gain some ground in this on me. It shows me how pathetically desperate you are, while still failing to provide any relevant data, despite going completely out of your way. I won’t even grace you with a rebuttal to that, I’ll let others discover the truth if they so choose.

Nice try failing to downplay clerics. Stun command lasts 9 seconds, so you’d have to get another break in 21 seconds for it to not work again, but even then they have multiple other stuns they can use for backup. It is objectively true that stun is the best defense against charm breaks compared to anything the shaman offers. And in the event that the mob is stun immune, the cleric can both rip/heal better than the shaman if needed, and root as well.

The fact that you think the shaman is saving the mana of an enchanter by slowing tells me You know nothing about enchanter play. If an enchanter is allowed to keep a pet, they have no mana issues. Between c2, tot, wandering mind, etc they are more than fine. They can also use lower level slows, like tepid, or give their pet a swarm caller if they need to save some mana for some rare reason. In fact I used tepid for majority of content as 70+% slow is usually overkill.

Enchanters translate into all group compositions because of their charm dps. I’m not sure why you keep failing to realize this, or just purposely neglect it which you’re likely doing. So yes, you can scale them indefinitely from solo to group play. 6 enchanters in a group is perfectly fine. 6 shamans would just be all clicking their jbb in desperation.

Again, shamans are an acceptable class. If you want to roll with one, that’s fine. It’s just that clerics are objectively better in this group comp.