sk starting points

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The difference is you simply have no idea what you are talking about and are using end-game raiding, assumption that max mana automatically translates into an extra lifetap for survivability (never mind better complete heals, and that if he doesnt need to spend that mana on a lifetap he can use it for more efficient applications), and other edge cases to make the case for allocating INT on an iksar SK that is almost certainly never going to see the utility of that decision.

Buddy you seem to get tangled in the weeds a bit too easily with the edge cases and misunderstanding of the relative utility of mana. We figured this one out years ago.

The problem here is you simply assume that saying "you don't know what you are talking about" is a valid argument. It isn't.

I can back up my arguments with facts, while you haven't.

When comparing INT to STA, you can see how much you get from both. STA gives you 104 HP at 60, and INT gives you roughly 220 mana under 200 INT.

A level 30 SK is getting 52 HP from the STA, and roughly 110 mana from the INT. 110 mana translates to 56 HP via one Lifedraw + Life Spike, and you still have 20+ mana. Statistically the INT is helping you more while leveling.

INT is factually harder to cap once you hit 60 compared to STA and STR.

I can show you the tangible benefits at all level ranges.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem here is you simply assume that saying "you don't know what you are talking about" is a valid argument. It isn't.

I can back up my arguments with facts, while you haven't.

When comparing INT to STA, you can see how much you get from both. STA gives you 104 HP at 60, and INT gives you roughly 220 mana under 200 INT.

A level 30 SK is getting 52 HP from the STA, and roughly 110 mana from the INT. 110 mana translates to 56 HP via one Lifedraw + Life Spike, and you still have 20+ mana. Statistically the INT is helping you more while leveling.

INT is factually harder to cap once you hit 60 compared to STA and STR.

I can show you the tangible benefits at all level ranges.

See I'm beginning to doubt you're even reading or understanding my posts because you're ignoring or failing to comprehend what I've said. I'm not making any argument about what things are like at 60 with capped stats. OP is extremely unlikely to ever reach that point.

Yes your argument is based on facts, as is mine, but that doesn't make you correct, because the conclusions you are drawing from those facts are all wrong. You're telling some dude who wants to roll an iksar SK to play around with a Greenmist to put all his points into INT because at 60, raid-buffed and raid-geared, he's going to cap his STR and STA, and in that situation INT provides a damn near negligible benefit. Greater INT when leveling only translates to HP IF YOU RUN OUT OF MANA *and* cast the spells, because it's not sustain. Greater HP is going to keep you above the "Oh shit" threshold on a larger portion of fights and potentially preclude you from ever casting inefficient lifetaps in the first place.

You're additionally ignoring the fact that STR is going to help him do more damage 100% of the time while leveling, increasing XP, ending fights more quickly, and saving spells from ever having to be cast, while greater INT has a few fringe benefits in survivability, and you have to cast spells to realize the translation from mana to HP. Furthermore, that you believe Shralok Packs are going to keep an iksar from getting encumbered when stuffed with fine steel and other heavy junk tells me you've never played a nerd race.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

See I'm beginning to doubt you're even reading or understanding my posts because you're ignoring or failing to comprehend what I've said. I'm not making any argument about what things are like at 60 with capped stats. OP is extremely unlikely to ever reach that point.

The only person who isn't reading is yourself.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A level 30 SK is getting 52 HP from the STA, and roughly 110 mana from the INT. 110 mana translates to 56 HP via one Lifedraw + Life Spike, and you still have 20+ mana. Statistically the INT is helping you more while leveling.

I have already shown what INT vs. STA looks like at level 30, which isn't a level 60 BiS character. INT is giving you more HP back, and some mana to boot.

I also explained what your character looks like at level 60 with BiS gear, so you can see the pros/cons across all level ranges.

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes your argument is based on facts, as is mine, but that doesn't make you correct, because the conclusions you are drawing from those facts are all wrong. You're telling some dude who wants to roll an iksar SK to play around with a Greenmist to put all his points into INT because at 60, raid-buffed and raid-geared, he's going to cap his STR and STA, and in that situation INT provides a damn near negligible benefit. Greater INT when leveling only translates to HP IF YOU RUN OUT OF MANA *and* cast the spells, because it's not sustain. Greater HP is going to keep you above the "Oh shit" threshold on a larger portion of fights and potentially preclude you from ever casting inefficient lifetaps in the first place.

As I explained above, you are getting more value out of the INT in terms of both HP and Mana while leveling. If you are at the point where you only have 50 HP left, you screwed up. The problem wasn't your starting stats, it was your strategy.

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're additionally ignoring the fact that STR is going to help him do more damage 100% of the time while leveling, increasing XP, ending fights more quickly, and saving spells from ever having to be cast, while greater INT has a few fringe benefits in survivability, and you have to cast spells to realize the translation from mana to HP. Furthermore, that you believe Shralok Packs are going to keep an iksar from getting encumbered when stuffed with fine steel and other heavy junk tells me you've never played a nerd race.

I am not ignoring this fact. You are simply failing to provide any data to back up the claim that the extra damage from +20 STR is going to be noticeable. I have leveled up multiple melee characters, including an Iksar Monk with 140 STR and no Tink Bags. I am quite confident in my knowledge of how much STR helps your DPS, and how much STR you need to carry things like fine steel weapons. I generally level by killing guards and selling FS weapons lol. OP doesn't need 200+ STR to do well in terms of DPS and carry capacity.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TLDR version for OP: stats don’t actually matter.

This is correct. Starting stats won't have a significant impact on you one way or the other. I don't think anybody (including myself) was claiming otherwise. However, some people like to know which is the BEST choice, even if it won't have a significant impact. There is a factual answer to this, and it is INT.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not ignoring this fact. You are simply failing to provide any data to back up the claim that the extra damage from +20 STR is going to be noticeable.

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This reminds me so much of this thread:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=406923

449 pages of DSM demanding “data” and “evidence” while providing nothing but napkin math in return.

Seriously, it has to be the most epic thread on these forums.

Lol at shamans out dpsing mages or parallel root rotting in fast paced dps groups as a way of contributing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This reminds me so much of this thread:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=406923

449 pages of DSM demanding “data” and “evidence” while providing nothing but napkin math in return.

Seriously, it has to be the most epic thread on these forums.

Lol at shamans out dpsing mages or parallel root rotting in fast paced dps groups as a way of contributing.

I proved you wrong in that thread, which you didn't read. You spent hundreds of pages claiming that solo DPS parses cannot be used to show group DPS, and I have video evidence of me in a group showing that you can match solo DPS parses. Your "evidence" that solo DPS parses cannot be used was to post silly gifs non-stop. You are a troll.

Please start providing evidence for your claims. Nobody thinks you are correct simply because you say so.

Also, please stop posting things that are off topic. Posting a thread proving you are wrong and a troll isn't a very good method to try and discredit others.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please start providing evidence for your claims. Nobody thinks you are correct simply because you say so.

This is factually inaccurate.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is factually inaccurate.

What is inaccurate?

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

See I'm beginning to doubt you're even reading or understanding my posts because you're ignoring or failing to comprehend what I've said. I'm not making any argument about what things are like at 60 with capped stats. OP is extremely unlikely to ever reach that point.

Yes your argument is based on facts, as is mine, but that doesn't make you correct, because the conclusions you are drawing from those facts are all wrong. You're telling some dude who wants to roll an iksar SK to play around with a Greenmist to put all his points into INT because at 60, raid-buffed and raid-geared, he's going to cap his STR and STA, and in that situation INT provides a damn near negligible benefit. Greater INT when leveling only translates to HP IF YOU RUN OUT OF MANA *and* cast the spells, because it's not sustain. Greater HP is going to keep you above the "Oh shit" threshold on a larger portion of fights and potentially preclude you from ever casting inefficient lifetaps in the first place.

You're additionally ignoring the fact that STR is going to help him do more damage 100% of the time while leveling, increasing XP, ending fights more quickly, and saving spells from ever having to be cast, while greater INT has a few fringe benefits in survivability, and you have to cast spells to realize the translation from mana to HP. Furthermore, that you believe Shralok Packs are going to keep an iksar from getting encumbered when stuffed with fine steel and other heavy junk tells me you've never played a nerd race.

Rip’s screen shot shows his nerd is carrying 200 weight with gear and a fair amount of pp.

Dumping str is great imo as you don’t rely on buffs and it protects against incapacitate type spells (which you’ll have spammed against you in karnors and seb, two of my favy zones, as well as a bunch more).

Getting encumbered is super annoying, which incapacitate, str taps, etc seem to provoke, so for a strict levelling toon I simp str. As i understand if you overcap str it is no problem as it provides a buffer against these spells (can anyone confirm or deny?)