sk starting points

[Troxx]

20 str should never ... EVER ... result in a 16% difference in dps. My parse was flawed despite it showing what I wanted it to.

Biggest problems:
-Not the level range i shooted for. It was high green, not solid blue
-Fights were short requiring compiling lots of smaller/shorter fights
-Insufficient total hits logged - the RNG is a big deal in these cases
-Insufficient time in camp - someone else came in with a legitimate need cutting session short.

The parses showed precisely what I wanted it to, but to a far greater degree than should be mathematically expected. It is therefore a "not good" parse to use as proof of anything. I will repeat it at some point.

I consider that session to be somewhere between "marginally useful" and "completely borked due to limitations aforementioned".

Unlike you, I don't stand on my own relative "Mr Turtle" and proclaim victory. I acknowledge my findings, despite being what i wanted them to show ... were anecdotal at best.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The parses showed precisely what I wanted it to, but to a far greater degree than should be mathematically expected. It is therefore a "not good" parse to use as proof of anything. I will repeat it at some point.

I consider that session to be somewhere between "marginally useful" and "completely borked due to limitations aforementioned".

Unlike you, I don't stand on my own relative "Mr Turtle" and proclaim victory. I acknowledge my findings, despite being what i wanted them to show ... were anecdotal at best.

I am not standing on anything. I am simply pointing out that your data https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=168 happened to fit nicely with my data https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=105 . I got a difference of 3 DPS, and you got a difference of 4 DPS. Since you didn't exclude ripostes, I imagine your number is a bit inflated. This means I am currently winning the debate. You have also shown that you may be incorrect about the turtle with regards to it's validity as a DPS testing mob.

If you think your data is insufficient, I will be happy to review the new data when you try again.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

20 str should never ... EVER ... result in a 16% difference in dps. My parse was flawed despite it showing what I wanted it to.

You are simply putting too much emphasis on percentages as evidence. My DPS numbers were 67 vs. 70. The percentage difference there is ~5%, even though the raw number is close to yours. Percentages get bigger when both numbers are smaller. The important part is the raw DPS number. 3-4 DPS via 20 STR isn't a large performance increase at level 60. This number will go down further when you take into account lower player level, lower player skills, a lower ratio weapon, a lower percentage haste item, etc. This is because we are talking about a player who is leveling in EC gear, not a player already at level 60.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I got a difference of 3 DPS, and you got a difference of 4 DPS.

Your comparative skills are lacking. You got a 3dps difference and I did have 4 but ….

Flawed though my testing was ….

-I got a difference of 4 dps using a plane of hate 1hs where the max dps was 29 va 25 with my weak ass half elf str. That is a 16% difference.
-You had a 3 dps difference using a ToV 2 hander. Dps of 70.25 vs 67.3 dps on a level 5 mob. That’s a 4.38% difference.

That’s a whole world of nowhere close. It’s not a 3 dps vs 4dps difference. It’s 4.38% dps more vs 16% more.

If I had been putting out 67.3dps with my ToV weapon … my flawed study would have proportionally been putting out 78.06 dps (that’s 16% more than 67.3). So not a 3 dps increase … closer to 11dps.

Again, I don’t trust my tests. I need to dedicate more time and do them properly. It can’t possibly be as high as a 16% difference.

Even if your parses were 100% accurate, 4.3% is nothing to sneeze at. This is a game of inches and most players would give a leg for being 4.3% better at whatever. It certainly makes a strong enough case for killing faster and not needing 20 more intelligence on a low str iksar sk.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your comparative skills are lacking. You got a 3dps difference and I did have 4 but ….

Flawed though my testing was ….

-I got a difference of 4 dps using a plane of hate 1hs where the max dps was 29 va 25 with my weak ass half elf str. That is a 16% difference.
-You had a 3 dps difference using a ToV 2 hander. Dps of 70.25 vs 67.3 dps on a level 5 mob. That’s a 4.38% difference.

That’s a whole world of nowhere close. It’s not a 3 dps vs 4dps difference. It’s 4.38% dps more vs 16% more.

If I had been putting out 67.3dps with my ToV weapon … my flawed study would have proportionally been putting out 78.06 dps (that’s 16% more than 67.3)

Again, I don’t trust my tests. I need to dedicate more time and do them properly. It can’t possibly be as high as a 16% difference.

Even if your parses were 100% accurate, 4.3% is nothing to sneeze at. It certainly makes a strong enough case for killing faster and not needing 20 more intelligence on a low str iksar sk.

Why can’t ya do 78?

/GU Lord Doljonijiarnimorinar in 177s, 92687 @523 | Riphealer 13741@(80 in 170s) | Molf 13498@(80 in 168s) | Gatruk 13442@(78 in 171s) | Kittla 11514@(68 in 169s) | Enviee 8790@(54 in 162s) {X}

I did 80 here with shovel on my pally

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why can’t ya do 78?

/GU Lord Doljonijiarnimorinar in 177s, 92687 @523 | Riphealer 13741@(80 in 170s) | Molf 13498@(80 in 168s) | Gatruk 13442@(78 in 171s) | Kittla 11514@(68 in 169s) | Enviee 8790@(54 in 162s) {X}

I did 80 here with shovel on my pally

My pally was unbuffed other than self buffs. I’ve put out similar numbers fully buffed 256 str, + attack and fully hasted in raids brother.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your comparative skills are lacking. You got a 3dps difference and I did have 4 but ….

Flawed though my testing was ….

-I got a difference of 4 dps using a plane of hate 1hs where the max dps was 29 va 25 with my weak ass half elf str. That is a 16% difference.
-You had a 3 dps difference using a ToV 2 hander. Dps of 70.25 vs 67.3 dps on a level 5 mob. That’s a 4.38% difference.

That’s a whole world of nowhere close. It’s not a 3 dps vs 4dps difference. It’s 4.38% dps more vs 16% more.

If I had been putting out 67.3dps with my ToV weapon … my flawed study would have proportionally been putting out 78.06 dps (that’s 16% more than 67.3). So not a 3 dps increase … closer to 11dps.

Again, I don’t trust my tests. I need to dedicate more time and do them properly. It can’t possibly be as high as a 16% difference.

Even if your parses were 100% accurate, 4.3% is nothing to sneeze at. This is a game of inches and most players would give a leg for being 4.3% better at whatever. It certainly makes a strong enough case for killing faster and not needing 20 more intelligence on a low str iksar sk.

Your ideas about percentages are just wrong. The percentage difference in DPS on 1H weapons is bigger simply because the DPS numbers are lower. You don't need to read further into it than that. You have no evidence to suggest you will also get a 16% increase with a 2H weapon.

So far your data supports mine. If your data is flawed, bring more and we can discuss it.

I am not sure why you keep needing to make these strange explanations when your own data speaks for itself.

You also keep forgetting that a lower level player will be getting less than 3-4 DPS from 20 STR. I am not sure why you think this number will remain the same, or get higher, when the player is lower level, has less skills, has a worse weapon/haste item, etc.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your ideas about percentages are just wrong. The percentage difference in DPS on 1H weapons is bigger simply because the DPS numbers are lower.

It doesn’t work like that.

Sorry.

Hope that helps.