Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Very good post overall, well structured and I agree 100% with your conclusions.

But please don't imply autistic people can't think abstractly. That perpetuates a harmful stereotype.

“People with autism have problems with abstract and conceptual thinking. Some may eventually acquire abstract skills, but others never will. When abstract concepts must be used, use visual cues, such as drawings or written words, to augment the abstract idea.“

https://www.iidc.indiana.edu/irca/ar...bstract%20idea.

“Abstract thinking is generally highly correlated with problem-solving ability which is predictive of better adaptive functioning. Measures of conceptual reasoning, an ecologically-valid laboratory measure of problem-solving, and a report measure of adaptive functioning in the natural environment, were administered to children and adults with and without autism. The individuals with autism had weaker conceptual reasoning ability than individuals with typical development of similar age and cognitive ability. For the autism group, their flexible thinking scores were significantly correlated with laboratory measures of strategy formation and rule shifting and with reported overall adaptive behavior but not socialization scores. Therefore, in autism, flexibility of thought is potentially more important for adaptive functioning in the natural environment than conceptual reasoning or problem-solving.“

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6067678/

“For children on the autism spectrum, abstract thinking might pose challenges due to a tendency toward concrete thinking and difficulty with interpreting non-literal language. However, this doesn't mean they lack abstract thinking altogether. Many exhibit strengths in focused areas and may develop unique strategies to navigate abstract concepts.“

https://bighearttoys.com/blogs/autis...tract-thinking


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Yes - it was an inappropriate jab at DSM but problems with making the transition from concrete thought (neurotypical for toddlers and younger children) to abstract thought (the neurotypical transition in your older childhood to early adolescent years) is one of the hallmark struggles for those who are on spectrum. For people who have high functioning autism - it is a key area of struggle and is a defining aspect of the condition itself.

A defining feature of the condition is not what I would really call a “stereotype”

DSM get’s so lost on the weeds with his napkin math that he has historically been unable to step back and either look at the bigger picture or the same picture from a different angle.

He is the poster child for a “concrete thinker”

Objectively, after years of observing his argument structure, prose, tendency to double down, interactions with others on this forum … in trying to follow his cognitive train of thought … and last but not least obsession with whatever conclusion he has come to or opinion he holds …

I’m pretty confident he’s on spectrum (diagnosed or otherwise)

The alternative is he has an internet persona that is entirely separate from his actual *person* in real life or has always played an elaborate ruse on the community and is, in fact, a double black belt in intrawebs trolling.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A defining feature of the condition is not what I would really call a “stereotype”

Interesting, you've given me some food for thought. I don't want to derail this thread further, so I'll spoiler my response. If you have a further response, maybe take it to DMs?

 

Originally Posted by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_spectrum

Autism is currently defined as a highly variable neurodevelopmental disorder that is generally thought to cover a broad and deep spectrum, manifesting very differently from one person to another. The spectrum model should not be understood as a continuum running from mild to severe, but instead means that autism can present very differently in each person.

In other words, because it's a spectrum, it's not really possible for any one feature to be defining.

Certainly, a predisposition towards taking language extremely literally is common, as is a pedantic tendency to fixate on the "trees" instead of the "forest". And I bet we can both think of more than one person on this forum for whom that description is relevant.

However, that's not what I think about when I think about abstract thought.

Originally Posted by Hans Asperger

Autistic children have the ability to see things and evens around them from a new point of view, which often shows surprising maturity. This ability, which remains throughout life, can in favorable cases lead to exceptional achievements which others may never attain. Abstraction ability, for instance, is a prerequisite for scientific endeavour. Indeed, we find numerous autistic individuals among distinguished scientists.

It seems that for success in science and art, a dash of autism is essential. For success, the necessary ingredient may be an ability to turn away from the everyday world, from the simply practical, an ability to rethink a subject with originality so as to create in new untrodden ways.

In my mind higher mathematics is the epitome of abstract reasoning, and the prevalence of autistic people in STEM fields is what led to my initial objection. As Dr. Asperger wrote about one of his patients:

Seeing that he was already fascinated by geometry at age three, she drew a triangle (a three-cornered figure), a square (a four-cornered figure), and a pentangle (a five-cornered figure) for him in the sand. He immediately drew a line and a dot, proclaiming the line a two-cornered figure and the dot a one-cornered figure.