Cleric or Paladin on Green

[Leorus]

I'm just getting back into Everquest and Project 1999 after a long hiatus. I love grouping and playing a Paladin or Cleric. How in demand are Clerics & Paladins in groups and raids while leveling and at end game?

Cheers

[Elizondo]

Originally Posted by Leorus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm just getting back into Everquest and Project 1999 after a long hiatus. I love grouping and playing a Paladin or Cleric. How in demand are Clerics & Paladins in groups and raids while leveling and at end game?

Cheers

They both basically press 1 button during raid fights and buff people. Paladins get to tank trash sometimes if they are geared, but you are really just there to cast one buff and heal rogues during fights

Play what you want to be immersed in. Role play a little. Have fun.

[grims]

Cleric imo every raiding guild needs them. Leveling wise they can act like a paladin pretty effective early on too haha.

Late leveling pairing with an enchanter you can level fairly quickly / find groups pretty well but obv your solo is not the best (pala or cleric in that regard though)

[Rimitto]

I'm gonna pop a curve ball on this and say wizard.
It feels like there are "too many" clerics on the server right now.
Every single raid guild has literal throngs of cleric bots ready for any of their members to pick up and play. I don't think it's an issue of "needing more clerics" at this point.

The same couldn't be said of DPS though, which is why I suggest wizard.
I've seen quite a few paladins, lots of monks, but the spellcasters seem to be dwindling far more than others.

I'd say if you're stuck on the choice between paladin and cleric, go paladin.

[Jimjam]

Wizard isn’t a dps class.

[Rimitto]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wizard isn’t a dps class.

the hell it's not? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
literally what the hell else do they do?
pretty sure you're screwing with me on this one cause, if the forums really don't think wizards are dps, then just.... dammmmmmmmnnn
site needs to be purged with fire, wizard fire. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Rimitto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the hell it's not? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
literally what the hell else do they do?
pretty sure you're screwing with me on this one cause, if the forums really don't think wizards are dps, then just.... dammmmmmmmnnn
site needs to be purged with fire, wizard fire. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have a wizard. Fairly recently hit 60 so I remember at least some of the grind. However, do understand I am a terrible wizard player. Rincewind. Take my anecdotes with salt.

Wizards aren’t dps. They aren’t much tbh. Their best spell is root, but have a couple of tactical stuns loaded too. Snare and harvest I keep memmed. A damage absorb is helpful. Maybe mem one nuke. The last slot is flavour - eyeball, maybe rain. Sometimes I even load the top up ds if there is no competing buffs. Basically wizards are bottom tier CC BUT they still do that better than dps.

Why aren’t they dps? Dps is a measure of sustained damage and the damage they can do vs medtime is not good. With bard, c2 and potG that isn’t the case neither is it the case in AoE groups, but those are exceptional circumstances. Not even nuke robe or a mana free pet will help tbh.

But what about their big fast casting nukes? Well, wizards do okay at instantaneous damage or bursts, but I don’t consider this dps. This is more like something they can do every 15 mins or so if you have been frugal with mana. It can be very helpful, but it isn’t really dps. It is just CC by elimination.

Anyway, thats how I see wizard in a groupcontext. On a raid boss they can dps okay, but I’ve found melee kill bosses fine so it is better to save mana for TL to pivot fast to next boss (i’m most likely to raid if i have free time and it is a quake).

Ymmv

Edit: i also wanted to throw in a hot take cos imo suggesting wiz in a clr vs pal thread is in itself an irrelevant hottake.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have a wizard. Fairly recently hit 60 so I remember at least some of the grind. However, do understand I am a terrible wizard player. Rincewind. Take my anecdotes with salt.

Wizards aren’t dps. They aren’t much tbh. Their best spell is root, but have a couple of tactical stuns loaded too. Snare and harvest I keep memmed. A damage absorb is helpful. Maybe mem one nuke. The last slot is flavour - eyeball, maybe rain. Sometimes I even load the top up ds if there is no competing buffs. Basically wizards are bottom tier CC BUT they still do that better than dps.

Why aren’t they dps? Dps is a measure of sustained damage and the damage they can do vs medtime is not good. With bard, c2 and potG that isn’t the case neither is it the case in AoE groups, but those are exceptional circumstances. Not even nuke robe or a mana free pet will help tbh.

But what about their big fast casting nukes? Well, wizards do okay at instantaneous damage or bursts, but I don’t consider this dps. This is more like something they can do every 15 mins or so if you have been frugal with mana. It can be very helpful, but it isn’t really dps. It is just CC by elimination.

Anyway, thats how I see wizard in a groupcontext. On a raid boss they can dps okay, but I’ve found melee kill bosses fine so it is better to save mana for TL to pivot fast to next boss (i’m most likely to raid if i have free time and it is a quake).

Ymmv

Edit: i also wanted to throw in a hot take cos imo suggesting wiz in a clr vs pal thread is in itself an irrelevant hottake.

Nah their best spell is TL Box.

And:

[Rimitto]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have a wizard. Fairly recently hit 60 so I remember at least some of the grind. However, do understand I am a terrible wizard player. Rincewind. Take my anecdotes with salt.

Wizards aren’t dps. They aren’t much tbh. Their best spell is root, but have a couple of tactical stuns loaded too. Snare and harvest I keep memmed. A damage absorb is helpful. Maybe mem one nuke. The last slot is flavour - eyeball, maybe rain. Sometimes I even load the top up ds if there is no competing buffs. Basically wizards are bottom tier CC BUT they still do that better than dps.

Why aren’t they dps? Dps is a measure of sustained damage and the damage they can do vs medtime is not good. With bard, c2 and potG that isn’t the case neither is it the case in AoE groups, but those are exceptional circumstances. Not even nuke robe or a mana free pet will help tbh.

But what about their big fast casting nukes? Well, wizards do okay at instantaneous damage or bursts, but I don’t consider this dps. This is more like something they can do every 15 mins or so if you have been frugal with mana. It can be very helpful, but it isn’t really dps. It is just CC by elimination.

Anyway, thats how I see wizard in a groupcontext. On a raid boss they can dps okay, but I’ve found melee kill bosses fine so it is better to save mana for TL to pivot fast to next boss (i’m most likely to raid if i have free time and it is a quake).

Ymmv

Edit: i also wanted to throw in a hot take cos imo suggesting wiz in a clr vs pal thread is in itself an irrelevant hottake.

okay so you're saying wizard is a sucky dps... but my point is that it's not a healing role, it's not a puller, it's definitely not a tank, it's barely crowd control I guess?
I honestly don't know wizard all that much, other than that they have a lot of nukes, and AOE nukes, and some teleport spells. That screams DPS to me. Maybe elemental DPS, but DPS is still DPS, even if it's shitty DPS.
I know they get that 2k dmg anti-dragon spell at 60 too.

besides, I did say if they were going to choose between cleric and paladin, to go paladin. Everyone else is just latching onto the fact that I said there weren't enough wizards.

[Zuranthium]

Why do you respond to every single post they make with this same tired "bot" thing? It's a useless waste of space and more annoying than what they're writing. You actually sound like more of a bot at this point.

Originally Posted by Rimitto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I honestly don't know wizard all that much, other than that they have a lot of nukes, and AOE nukes, and some teleport spells. That screams DPS to me.

Wizards peak at Level 12 for nuking. You can kill high Blue cons in 7 seconds at that level, with a total of 3 spells cast.

Fast forward to Level 60, it takes 7 seconds to cast your best nuke and you only do like 15% HP to a Level 50 MOB on average. And against a higher blue con? Don't even try to use anything except an inefficient low damage Lure spell, everything else just gets resisted too much. You can't even use your best Lure against most things in Velious either, since it's Ice based and they just laugh at it.

The class needs a major rework to function as it's supposed to. At Level 60, something like a 5 second cast unresistible 4,000 damage nuke that costs 800 mana. Just don't let it work vs raid targets, and perhaps impose some other usage limit. That way burst damage can be meaningful again and the Wizard can have a more respectable sustained DPS, while still being considerably less than a well geared melee.