Player Agreement: Rule Change at the DS Camp

[iksarking]

That is a big no on a change.

[loramin]

Honestly OP, this thread doesn't matter. What matters is what happens in-game ... but as someone who helped forge the Shady/Goblin Agreements, I promise you this: changing or setting player agreements is really, really hard.

It took awhile (weeks?) of me and others going to every shady spawn, talking to everyone there, getting them to all agree to the terms of a roll ... and then watching some asshole not agree, and we had to do it all over again the next day. And that was when the only "competition" was the (unpopular) clickfest.

If you want to set a player agreement on DS (which is what a roll would be), all you have to do is get every player who wants to do DS to agree to a roll, and then keep it happening for a few weeks (the staff have never specified how long it takes to permanently set an agreement, but it seems to be "a few weeks").

I'd give up on the idea if I were you though: if you can't convince people here in the forum, I really don't think you're going to succeed at convincing everyone in-game.

[fortior]

Someone who actually engages with player responses instead of putting on a customer service voice and 'thanking for feedback' without displaying any sort of understanding could do this. OP seems to be under the impression that you just need to get enough forum/discord votes to will a GM enforced player agreement into existence.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's the real trick.

You don't actually need SWC or an urn.

You can beat the entire server and content without ever doing a benevolence wracked chord of the coldain frostreaver IV.

you can beat the server in kunark gear

[berbax]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Honestly OP, this thread doesn't matter. What matters is what happens in-game ... but as someone who helped forge the Shady/Goblin Agreements, I promise you this: changing or setting player agreements is really, really hard.

It took awhile (weeks?) of me and others going to every shady spawn, talking to everyone there, getting them to all agree to the terms of a roll ... and then watching some asshole not agree, and we had to do it all over again the next day. And that was when the only "competition" was the (unpopular) clickfest.

If you want to set a player agreement on DS (which is what a roll would be), all you have to do is get every player who wants to do DS to agree to a roll, and then keep it happening for a few weeks (the staff have never specified how long it takes to permanently set an agreement, but it seems to be "a few weeks").

I'd give up on the idea if I were you though: if you can't convince people here in the forum, I really don't think you're going to succeed at convincing everyone in-game.

Understood, thanks for the details from those other camps. Actually I didn't think the forum would help at all, but that's where CSR sent me. Appreciate the info on how you worked on those other changes though.

[berbax]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Someone who actually engages with player responses instead of putting on a customer service voice and 'thanking for feedback' without displaying any sort of understanding could do this. OP seems to be under the impression that you just need to get enough forum/discord votes to will a GM enforced player agreement into existence.

Fortior not only did I engage with you ad nauseum, but I described many of the points and arguments, and counters to things you were saying. It's a bit easier to read my responses without tinted sunglasses on, so if you need help finding my talking points throughout this post I can help with that, just let me know!

Also thanking you for your feedback, is a polite way of me saying: I get it dude, you don't want the change.

[fortior]

The main reason starting a player agreement for DS is way way different from starting one for scout/another clickfest turn-in is that the DS camp always has a winner/owner. There's always someone/a group who's currently guaranteed to win the next spawn, which is not like scout/ring 8/ring 10 etc.

[fortior]

Originally Posted by berbax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fortior not only did I engage with you ad nauseum, but I described many of the points and arguments, and counters to things you were saying. It's a bit easier to read my responses without tinted sunglasses on, so if you need help finding my talking points throughout this post I can help with that, just let me know!

Also thanking you for your feedback, is a polite way of me saying: I get it dude, you don't want the change.

I can find your talking points fine, they're just not good. Your response to 'you just want the expensive mq' was 'nuh uh'. You didn't reply to the examples of other quest bottlenecks which are FTE/non-roll camps, but you did to some guy listing ring 8/10/shady/angry. Your reply to me posting the thread directly stating that autofire/cheating was an important reason for the scout roll (scout roll being one of the examples you listed yourself) dismissed that because it wasn't proof of the reason for the angry/shady roll.

The admission above that you first went to CSR, then discord, then the forums, before even trying to get anyone on board in the actual game we're playing just shows you have no idea whatsoever about what you're trying to do.

[berbax]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can find your talking points fine, they're just not good. Your response to 'you just want the expensive mq' was 'nuh uh'. You didn't reply to the examples of other quest bottlenecks which are FTE/non-roll camps, but you did to some guy listing ring 8/10/shady/angry. Your reply to me posting the thread directly stating that autofire/cheating was an important reason for the scout roll (scout roll being one of the examples you listed yourself) dismissed that because it wasn't proof of the reason for the angry/shady roll.

The admission above that you first went to CSR, then discord, then the forums, before even trying to get anyone on board in the actual game we're playing just shows you have no idea whatsoever about what you're trying to do.

Thank you for your feedback

[Ruien]

Hello,

1. Urn cost remains high
2. Guilds are pemanently farming the item still
3. Still does not provide a fair opportunity to all members of the server (as it relates to guilds swapping players in and out to keep it locked)

Maybe you just don't understand how URN discord works?

Urn cost remains high
The urn cost is entirely a function of supply and demand. Angry goblin is a /random roll and the Skargus head MQ is 100k. So, /random is not going to suddenly make Urns affordable.

Guilds are pemanently farming the item still
This is patently false. We have members of ALL of the top guilds in URN discord, as well as many unguilded individuals. Working together, we can compete against farm crews and win. The blue URN discord group has gotten 90%+ of the last 50 urns. And new members are welcomed every week.

Still does not provide a fair opportunity to all members of the server
This also is patently false. Each person in the discord is a separate individual, and time spent at the camp is tracked in an "active camp" channel, with a waiting list. As soon as anyone has hit their maximum quota of hours for the day, they are automatically replaced by the next person in the replacement queue. So anyone is able to "/rep add" themselves and jump in when their turn is up. When an Urn drops, the person present with the highest number of accumulated hours gets to loot it, and their hours drop to 0. The daily maximum quota and active group size can be adjusted if needed to ensure everyone has a fair opportunity to earn.

This system is so good, equitable, and effective that it provided the firepower needed to push dedicated farm crews and give everyone a fair shot at earning their Urn.

Finally, a group of people working together killing 5 mobs every 20-minute cycle is relaxing, not "unhealthy". There's a lot of casual conversation both in group and discord, and people pop in and out according to their schedule. Conversely, a random roll kills the community - you log in, roll, and /q; It's antithetical to the community aspect that this game exists for.