Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Toxigen]

have you seen my stapler?

[Troxx]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Troxx]

As I sit here on my 60 shaman, killing a whole heck of a lot of:

https://wiki.project1999.com/An_apprentice_kennelmaster

In hopes of spawning more:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Kennel_Master_Al%60ele

So that I can farm all the:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Hammered_Golden_Loop

That I want for my myriad level 60 characters ...

Thoughts run through my mind. Chief amongst them is that DAMN shamans are overpowered! My shaman is in garbage gear but can do some amazing things!

But!

I am parsing.

Mobs have are level 56 and have 14750hp. Wiki states the phs have less hp but when I look at kill times they are all about the same. My shaman is killing these guys pretty easily. With a hp pool of 14,750hp the kill times for the last squad of mobs are:

286sec (51.57dps)
371sec (39.76dps)
236sec (62.5dps)
178sec (82.86dps)
175sec (84.29dps)
198sec (74.49dps)
173sec (85.26dps)
213sec (69.25dps)
206sec (71.60dps)
205sec (71.95dps)
252sec (58.53dps)
210sec (70.24dps)
184sec (80.16dps)
175sec (84.28dps)

Pet (variable level) contributed 11dps on the low end and 19dps on the high end. Pet was always buffed with Celerity, Maniacal str and Focus (stacking str). After the first 3 kills I managed to bum an AEGO (safety) and swapped my spell bar around. For kills 4 and beyond the general strat was:

*GCDs used to speed up the steps

Torpor self (pre-engage)
Malo (engage and pet attacks as soon as he hits me)
Slow (repeat if resist)
Bane of Nife
Envenomed Bolt
Shamam Epic Dot
Torpor self when drops
Canni whenever
Reapply dots in above order

Above are the actual fights. Functional "DPS" peaked at less than 85d.26ps. Averages of averages was lower. Delay between "engage" and first dot was 2.5 sec for the slow - GCD - 5 sec bane of nife cast. Pet was engaged from the second malo hit and mob hit me.

My shaman's gear sucks. Buffed with Aego and shaman buffs:
HP: 3465hp
AC: 920
Mana 2469 (Sad/bad)

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Jolav

Fights typically ended with me at 20ish mana. I could hover higher - but I would kill slower and repop time of 20 min. I favored get it dead fastest for more pops/time. For the record ... I am still down there right now on my shaman.

Discussion: I am doing a lot more than just DPS - but I am keeping epic dot + 2 really efficient poison dots up. Pet is fully buffed (max'd possible str and my haste buff). Resists between named and trash are pretty similar. Other than named hitting me a bit harder, they seem otherwise the same.

Fights are trivial with AEGO. Without aego it gets pissy if slows chain resist.

Point is ... shaman DPS seems to PEAK under these circumstances at just under 86dps. Average DPS is lower and these fights seem to work out just such that the mob dies as my last application of Bane and EVB are wearing off. It is a kind of 'best of the best' situation unless i wasn't tanking and could chain click JBB in between. Regardless, those dots are a mana HOG.

Mage? sit back. Pet and dmg shield do most of the work. Lazy lobbing of nukes does actually surpass shaman going nuts (and under ideal situations where dots do full damage). Mage can actually burn (BURN BABY BURN with scars of sigil and GCD for > 200dpps).

Which class is better? Shaman hands down 99.999% of the time. Decently good dps when needed. Solid healing. Amazing buffs/slows/utility Just not in a theoretical 4 man all caster group where you are rocking a cleric and 2 enchanters. Heals are covered by cleric. Enchanters have the rest covered.

Best 4th?
-another enchanter? duh
-necro? strong pet - FD/snare/rez/heals/taps/twitch/utility
-mage? strongest pet - malo/rods/nukes/coth/ds

sham? meh. It just doesn't fit. Most of what the shaman CAN DO and DOES DO well. Just doesn't fit. All the extra is not needed. When I try to lay down the law I can't do so effectively. Sure the pet can tank if both charms break at a worst possible time but my 60 necros EoT or 60 mage pets do so better.

Overpowered class.

But can't dps like a mage.

[Jimjam]

Imo 86 is crazy good dps for what is meant to be a support class, especially on a mob within 5 levels of the character! I just wanted to say I enjoyed that little story you shared there Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't have anything useful to contribute to the thread right now, sorry!

[Troxx]

Yeah ... shaman DPS is really not that bad for a healer who also can slow 75%. Sometimes I forget just how good my poorly geared alt is.

It's just not close to mage dps [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Duik]

I wanted so badly for a druid to out utility a shaman.
DS. AC/FR debuff. Snare. Dots. DD. Ports. Charm!
It just isnt so.

I just didnt get how good slow (and haste!) was... i was a bit, slow it seems.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wanted so badly for a druid to out utility a shaman.

For the purposes of this group and depending on the scope ... druid does beat shaman. Ports/succor, snare, potg, animal charm (zone dependent), DS (if not bringing mage), group regen ....

If the group is supposed to be self sufficient? Druid might reign king for 4th

Shaman is a MUCH better class than druid. But if spots 1-3 are cleric/ench/ench ...

Shaman utility is kinda obsolete so yeah the druid brings more than shaman

[Eisai]

I love snared charm pet. I always /duel the druid to keep up (grm him to avoid aoe mez)

/who all dial is my lfg pool on ench & necro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]


Never played shaman. Just incase i try it next legacy; troll?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Thanks for the Shaman parses Troxx! I do appreciate that you provided data this time.

I am glad to see you are showing around 80 DPS. I don't mean to dredge up old memories, but I will remind people of the parse that started the whole discussion:

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Troxx showed a combined parse of 79 DPS for his Mage. After Troxx admitted his parse was lower than what the image displayed, he did refuse to provide logs so we could get the correct DPS data.

We were basically comparing 80 DPS to 80 DPS when comparing the two classes at the start of the thread.

Mages without Epic are doing more like 65 DPS via Water Pet, 16 DPS via Damage Shield, and 25 DPS from something like Burnt Wood Staff. So something like 106 DPS, or 116 DPS with Boots of Bladecalling if memory serves. If the mob is 75% slowed, you'd lose 12 DPS from the Damage shield, so 94 DPS to 102 DPS.

There really isn't much benefit the Mage provides compared to a Shaman in a group with multiple Enchanters, unless you really need the CoTH. The Enchanter pets give plenty of DPS as is. DPS thresholds exist. The utility from the Shaman far exceeds the DPS differences between Shaman and Mage. They can Slow instead of the Enchanters, tank better than a Mage pet, heal, Malo, root, AoE slow, etc. Redundancy is not a bad thing, as two Enchanters also have redudancy. It's good to have more classes who can cast similar spells, because players can only cast 1 spell at a time. Three people slowing simultaneously instead of two will land slow faster on a really nasty mob. You can also open up a spell slot for one or both of the Enchanters if the Shaman is on slow duty.

Mages are also easier to pocket compared to a Torpor Shaman, and many people do have pocket mages already.

I am just bringing back my argument since Troxx has done the same. We do not need to rehash further.

[Eisai]

Last word! No backsies - no erasies - no replisies!