Do you believe in fatalism or free will?

[shovelquest]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is randomness though, at the quantum level. Things like half life and probability densities of electrons. So events that were not necessarily determined at the moment of creation

I agree with you! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] (time to rethink your opinion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] )

Is this what chaos theory in Jurassic park is? Just that random > uniformity?

I still to this day do not understand the hairs on your hand water drop metaphor.

[atomicpaul]

i want to believe in proton decay

[NopeNopeNopeNope]

I personally don’t think things could have worked out how they did without intelligent design

My cousin is a bit of a nerd and mentions that the existence of God vs atheists is the number 1 most debated topic in the country. And apparently there are like “scholars” on both sides publishing all sorts of content. And entire communities set up just to debate these things

And I am not about to start so don’t ask lol. I just believe too many signs point to intelligent design vs pure random chance

[Lune]

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree with you! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] (time to rethink your opinion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] )

Is this what chaos theory in Jurassic park is? Just that random > uniformity?

I still to this day do not understand the hairs on your hand water drop metaphor.

Say you have a long chain of events. Chaos theory deals with how very small changes in the early events can have dramatic and outsize effects on the later ones. So in the case of Jeff Goldblum trying to get into the blond's pants, the presence of a tiny hair or microscopic piece of skin in the right place at the right time makes a drop of water 100x its size go in a different direction.

Maybe that drop of water then drips drops down to the tip of her elbow and causes her to itch. But shit, the spot she itches is contaminated with dinosaur ebola, which infects her when she touches her face later. So a very small initial conition (a tiny hair or piece of skin) = ebola virus far down the chain of events.

This is what he's talking about when he refers to the butterfly effect, where the flap of a butterfly's wings might cause a hurricane somewhere else 50 years later because of cosmic Rube Goldberg causality.

If probability is a thing, though, there are tiny microscopic dicerolls embedded at various points in that causal chain.

[shovelquest]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Say you have a long chain of events. Chaos theory deals with how very small changes in the early events can have dramatic and outsize effects on the later ones. So in the case of Jeff Goldblum trying to get into the blond's pants, the presence of a tiny hair or microscopic piece of skin in the right place at the right time makes a drop of water 100x its size go in a different direction.

Maybe that drop of water then drips drops down to the tip of her elbow and causes her to itch. But shit, the spot she itches is contaminated with dinosaur ebola, which infects her when she touches her face later. So a very small initial conition (a tiny hair or piece of skin) = ebola virus far down the chain of events.

This is what he's talking about when he refers to the butterfly effect, where the flap of a butterfly's wings might cause a hurricane somewhere else 50 years later because of cosmic Rube Goldberg causality.

If probability is a thing, though, there are tiny microscopic dicerolls embedded at various points in that causal chain.

It just never really clicks for me, because he says "I bet you thought the 2nd drop would go in a different direction, but tiny follicles of hair are pointing in the direction of the last water flow, so it causes the next waterflow to follow the same path."

To me that sounds more like determinism. Like, "if you know the complete picture, you can predict the path of the water."

At least that's how his description always sounded to me.

Chaos, IMO would imply that the water WOULD go a random direction, but he argues that chaos means the water droplet follows order?

Just seems that way to me. Can you help me understand? What am I getting wrong?

[Lune]

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It just never really clicks for me, because he says "I bet you thought the 2nd drop would go in a different direction, but tiny follicles of hair are pointing in the direction of the last water flow, so it causes the next waterflow to follow the same path."

To me that sounds more like determinism. Like, "if you know the complete picture, you can predict the path of the water."

At least that's how his description always sounded to me.

Chaos, IMO would imply that the water WOULD go a random direction, but he argues that chaos means the water droplet follows order?

Just seems that way to me. Can you help me understand? What am I getting wrong?

Where does he say that? The 2nd drop in that scene goes in a different direction, then he explains the reasons why, imperfections in the skin, variations in topography from blood vessels, etc

Either way, chaos theory is an examination of deterministic phenomena. If all those initial conditions just happen to be the same, the sequence of events will also be the same until it hits upon a condition that is different. If you had Godlike omniscience about what every single particle and quanta of energy was doing, you COULD predict the path (-free will)..... unless, randomness is a thing.(+free will)

[shovelquest]

Oh cool thanks! You did it!

So chaos theory is: you can't do eugenics because there are too many variations to result in predictable outcomes?

[NopeNopeNopeNope]

Originally Posted by SorenVC [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only prayer I like is the silent prayer from Jesse Lee Peterson. I don't really like praying - sitting down with folded hands and say something in your mind. I don't see how such a prayer does anything. The silent prayer at least makes you be still and feel stillness. I really want to quit porn and masturbation. Maybe when I get to work at the new job it'll be easier to not do it. Right now I'm jobless and have too much time.

The only prayers I do are silent as well. And I only pray for other people never myself. Or if it’s for myself it’s only ever a tiny brief bit of gratitude

Like if I have an awesome night jog experience or an awesome date or something, I’ll take a quick knee and give thanks. Or sometimes I’ll just give thanks for being given another day of life

Yea quitting porn will only help when it comes to dating, for a bunch of reasons I can get into if you want

[Lune]

Originally Posted by shovelquest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh cool thanks! You did it!

So chaos theory is: you can't do eugenics because there are too many variations to result in predictable outcomes?

There are too many things that can happen that you can't predict or control for, yes

Life... uh, finds a way