Gearing a ranger

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Turtle is a viable a parse target, and there is a scalable math formula.

Why do people believe these kinds of things? You have no evidence to suggest turtle is an invalid parse target. I have plenty of parses that show otherwise.

The damage formula is a scaleable formula. Thats how it works. You can see the EQEMU code, which is a scaleable formula.

Respectfully DSM, I don’t think you can. The damage bonus is doing a lot of heavy lifting on the main hand and the offhand ratio is doing less on high AC targets.

I did like an hour of parsing on Bloodmaw, a lvl 30 npc in Great Divide with 50k hps. I would snare it by Velks and zone just when it turned to flee, then do another once it regenned. I may have already posted this, sorry if so.

Earthcaller/Swiftwind = 74,012 over 688 seconds = 107dps average
Vyemm whip/swiftwind = 71,059 over 597 seconds = 119 dps
Vyemm whip/claw of Lightning = 71,542 over 576 seconds = 124 dps
Meljeldin = 74,358 over 605 seconds = 122 dps

Based on this, going from Kunark epics to a solid NTOV main hand is a 10% in DPS. It’s roughly a 14% increase going to a Claw of Lightning despite the 50 attack loss…which seems steep to me.

The Meljeldin is a 45/38 2h is less a 13% improvement over the two epics.

I truly wish this was the case. I worked harder for the epics than I did for the Meljeldin and they look far nicer. If anyone was crazy enough to use them on Vindi I expect the dps would be under 40 (roughly half the 2h). I used to get mid 40’s with my Zek blade and Swiftwind. I really liked that setup but these days I’m not sure it would beat a woodsman staff at 60.

In the end, raw dps isn’t the only metric that makes an effective player or even the game more fun. I just think a ranger has a lot to gain with a single ToV weapon. We can’t just go grab a Peacebringer for 500p or MQ a rogue epic for 20k pp.

[Duik]

Snaggles. Did u have a full ds buff on? So a slowed mob would lower dps (in theory) so 2hs is even better.

Or did u not include ds in dps?

Or did i miss the point here. DS is counted dps isnt it?

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Duik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Snaggles. Did u have a full ds buff on? So a slowed mob would lower dps (in theory) so 2hs is even better.

Or did u not include ds in dps?

Or did i miss the point here. DS is counted dps isnt it?

In that test I had Ring9+Thorncoat, so 14 total. I got an early Earthcaller proc and a late Swarmcaller one (50% or do)

I’m going to do more controlled tests. Maybe helping a Geos group or something.

In the Bloodmaw test I had no DS, I tried to isolate all variables.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Respectfully DSM, I don’t think you can. The damage bonus is doing a lot of heavy lifting on the main hand and the offhand ratio is doing less on high AC targets.

I did like an hour of parsing on Bloodmaw, a lvl 30 npc in Great Divide with 50k hps. I would snare it by Velks and zone just when it turned to flee, then do another once it regenned. I may have already posted this, sorry if so.

Earthcaller/Swiftwind = 74,012 over 688 seconds = 107dps average
Vyemm whip/swiftwind = 71,059 over 597 seconds = 119 dps
Vyemm whip/claw of Lightning = 71,542 over 576 seconds = 124 dps
Meljeldin = 74,358 over 605 seconds = 122 dps

Based on this, going from Kunark epics to a solid NTOV main hand is a 10% in DPS. It’s roughly a 14% increase going to a Claw of Lightning despite the 50 attack loss…which seems steep to me.

The Meljeldin is a 45/38 2h is less a 13% improvement over the two epics.

I truly wish this was the case. I worked harder for the epics than I did for the Meljeldin and they look far nicer. If anyone was crazy enough to use them on Vindi I expect the dps would be under 40 (roughly half the 2h). I used to get mid 40’s with my Zek blade and Swiftwind. I really liked that setup but these days I’m not sure it would beat a woodsman staff at 60.

In the end, raw dps isn’t the only metric that makes an effective player or even the game more fun. I just think a ranger has a lot to gain with a single ToV weapon. We can’t just go grab a Peacebringer for 500p or MQ a rogue epic for 20k pp.

I am not 100% sure what you disagreeing with me about with this post. Apologies.

Corudoth is a good parse target because Corudoth acts as a DPS ceiling to show the best possible DPS a weapon could output from a level 60. I have a 90% chance to hit Corudoth roughly speaking, and only about 15% of my Damage Rolls are below the average of Weapon Damage * 2 + Damage Bonus. The reason why a DPS ceiling is useful is because you can predict the DPS on harder enemies, because your DPS can only go down.

A mob like AoW is probably the floor for DPS. You will have the worst possible DPS as a level 60 when fighting him. This means all other mobs are between this floor and the ceiling. You can adjust the percentage of DPS being reduced between the floor and the ceiling to see when one weapon will out-perform another.

This also shows how the damage formula is scaleable. This post shows that: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...5&postcount=32

[wagorf]

does it mean a better ratio offhand 1h (from NToV) is always better than using swifthand

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Respectfully DSM, I don’t think you can. The damage bonus is doing a lot of heavy lifting on the main hand and the offhand ratio is doing less on high AC targets.

I did like an hour of parsing on Bloodmaw, a lvl 30 npc in Great Divide with 50k hps. I would snare it by Velks and zone just when it turned to flee, then do another once it regenned. I may have already posted this, sorry if so.

Earthcaller/Swiftwind = 74,012 over 688 seconds = 107dps average
Vyemm whip/swiftwind = 71,059 over 597 seconds = 119 dps
Vyemm whip/claw of Lightning = 71,542 over 576 seconds = 124 dps
Meljeldin = 74,358 over 605 seconds = 122 dps

Based on this, going from Kunark epics to a solid NTOV main hand is a 10% in DPS. It’s roughly a 14% increase going to a Claw of Lightning despite the 50 attack loss…which seems steep to me.

The Meljeldin is a 45/38 2h is less a 13% improvement over the two epics.

I truly wish this was the case. I worked harder for the epics than I did for the Meljeldin and they look far nicer. If anyone was crazy enough to use them on Vindi I expect the dps would be under 40 (roughly half the 2h). I used to get mid 40’s with my Zek blade and Swiftwind. I really liked that setup but these days I’m not sure it would beat a woodsman staff at 60.

In the end, raw dps isn’t the only metric that makes an effective player or even the game more fun. I just think a ranger has a lot to gain with a single ToV weapon. We can’t just go grab a Peacebringer for 500p or MQ a rogue epic for 20k pp.

[Pint]

Someone should create a chat bot that just replies to dsm all day so we can all watch to see who gives up first hehe

[kjs86z2]

vyemm whip is just so damn good when theres aoe dmg going around

people forget this

woe is me, im remembering back when raiding was actually competitive, nvm, do it for the parse

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by wagorf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

does it mean a better ratio offhand 1h (from NToV) is always better than using swifthand

I don’t think so. That attack is really nice and the 13/21 ratio is serviceable. It’s just less of a goal to optimize. I don’t have enough testing to know of CoL is better for me with my level of attack power, off or on Avatar. It looks cool though and I got it cheap. I mostly just use it over the Swift for fashion (and swap when back when I’m using the BFG for +attack).

Originally Posted by kjs86z2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

vyemm whip is just so damn good when theres aoe dmg going around

people forget this

woe is me, im remembering back when raiding was actually competitive, nvm, do it for the parse

It’s certainly not bad at alll. The MR boost is huge. In in HoT left with a Druid healer I’ll use it because I feel bad not. The dps drop over the 2h is there, but get 6 rune procs on a red wurm and it feels less bad when they heal ya [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not 100% sure what you disagreeing with me about with this post. Apologies.

Corudoth is a good parse target because Corudoth acts as a DPS ceiling to show the best possible DPS a weapon could output from a level 60. I have a 90% chance to hit Corudoth roughly speaking, and only about 15% of my Damage Rolls are below the average of Weapon Damage * 2 + Damage Bonus. The reason why a DPS ceiling is useful is because you can predict the DPS on harder enemies, because your DPS can only go down.

A mob like AoW is probably the floor for DPS. You will have the worst possible DPS as a level 60 when fighting him. This means all other mobs are between this floor and the ceiling. You can adjust the percentage of DPS being reduced between the floor and the ceiling to see when one weapon will out-perform another.

This also shows how the damage formula is scaleable. This post shows that: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...5&postcount=32

When 2h weapons are close to the same ratio, while damage bonus isn’t “perfect” it scales per the delay making them far closer than prior to this update. That means on a level 1 turtle or a level 30 cave bear, it’s not a horrible way to determine which 2h is best.

That said…you could solve this with a calculator. The ratio itself should be indicative of performance (at least on average). There are only a handful of 2h weapons and nobody is disputing which is ideal over the other. If close in ratio, they fall into a group where frankly aside from what you looted that day (shovel vs Facesmasher, etc) or stats, people just don’t care which might be technically superior. We all know those are an upgrade over Kunark staves and a downgrade from Abashi or Bo Staff. If there are some people don’t know what is best but are looting them…yikes. They can either dig around in 25 years or forum posts or parse the data. Or just be a warmbody who doesn’t care.

The problem most people are trying to solve is the comparison between 2h and dual wield. The Turtle gives far too much credit to ratio and not enough to damage bonus. When your blam stick is cracking triple digits all the time it’s far closer to a Baton of Flame than it would be under circumstances where you aren’t always blessed with god-like strikes. Furthermore, 2h’s net a far higher damage bonus per second gain and better ratios than DW weapons. Monks get triple attack on the MH and rangers don’t; for monks that can make shoddier ratio 2hs even better than one might expect. Even outside an outlier parse compared to another.

My test on Bloodmaw demonstrates this point. A 14/24 should not be near a 13/19 on a test against a target who isn’t a pile of jelly. It shouldn’t be 13% behind the fifth best ratio in this current state of the game. They aren’t in the same galaxy…trust me.

[kjs86z2]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s certainly not bad at alll. The MR boost is huge. In in HoT left with a Druid healer I’ll use it because I feel bad not. The dps drop over the 2h is there, but get 6 rune procs on a red wurm and it feels less bad when they heal ya [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if you have to move out because you're gonna die, you're doing 0 dps