Myconid Spore King - Monk Solo

[Stryker85]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, it was NOT a solo kill. You used outside help. And you need to seek serious outside help IRL to remedy your total lack of reading comprehension and failure to understand basic math.

What you did is one specific mode of playing the game that falls within the "challenge" spectrum. In terms of the actual definition of the word "solo", it's not what you did. But again, the solo challenge page is not about a singular definition of the word solo. It's something that reflects the many different ways the game can be approached. The solo challenge page also includes Duos, and the Duos follow all the exact same rules about using outside help and consumables.

You are the only one gate keeping the definition of a "solo kill" under YOUR OWN standards. There's a reason the wiki had a whole section about what is and what is not allowed for outside buffs, and for which classes. Convenient that you deleted all of that to support your own argument. Anyone can claim anything is true if they're the ones editing the history books. Do I need to copy/paste it every time you post to remind everyone that all of this is your OWN AGENDA that you're trying to push, and goes against the very standards that the creator of the challenge set.
"In general the idea is that you could zone in and kill the mob on your own. Outside buffs are not permitted for casters; melee can get as many buffs as they like as they are already at a considerable disadvantage."

It doesn't get any more clear than that. Nothing you can ever say will change what the original standards for the challenge were. Funny how you only saw the need to change things after someone posts a video like this, but nooo you're not envious at all, right?

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys are basically fighting for how high the bar for soloing is. I think it boils down to needing separate solo categories.

Needing a separate category for an unbuffed kill WITH no consumables would imply that it is possible to do under those conditions in the first place - News Flash: It's not. How about this, if you want to create a rank higher than what was previously listed, then how about you go out and prove that its possible under those conditions before you make up said rank.

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But then you open the can of worms of if buffing is considered outside help, you could consider being raid geared to the gills outside help too so then it becomes a self found challenge by default. Raid gear guy unbuffed might have better stats than a non raid gear player with outside buffs so it all becomes hazy. Just giving aegolism to a caster nearly doubles their hp.

LOL OK - So let me get this straight, now raid gear is considered outside help too?? Jesus, the levels of copium here are insane.

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think all kills are valid and impressive but it is disengenuous to try to default them to being all the same because they're absolutely not.

No one here is trying to "default them to being all the same" at all. We're just simply saying that adding a rank higher than what was previously considered the top echelon of the challenge should only be done after someone proves that it's even possible to do so in the first place. You can't sit there and claim "wElL yA, bUt YoU cOuLd'Ve DoNe It UnDeR hArDeR cOnDiTiOnS" if no one has ever shown that its even remotely possible to do under those conditions.

My no charge kill was done under the absolute hardest conditions that anyone has ever solo'd the king under. There's only been 2 people that have solo'd the king prior. One used multiple "strong clicky" charges like puppet strings, slowstone amber, etc. The other used multiple characters for the kill (a druid for the pull, and then a chanter for the kill). Trying to claim that the person who did it self buffed using multiple characters is the same thing as someone doing it solo with one toon is whats disingenuous here.

If you want to create an S+ rank, then login and show us that its possible before you try to theorize your bullshit from the sidelines.

[vales]

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Needing a separate category for an unbuffed kill WITH no consumables would imply that it is possible to do under those conditions in the first place - News Flash: It's not..

there are more targets than spore king and more classes than monk, so it makes sense for that to exist in general

[Stryker85]

Originally Posted by vales [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there are more targets than spore king and more classes than monk, so it makes sense for that to exist in general

I would argue that you should only be able to add a higher rank than what already exists if YOU can backup your own claims and kill it under those conditions yourself first.

Sure there are a ton of targets that you can kill without buffs or consumables, that doesn't mean that a no charge spore king kill (one of the most difficult mobs to solo under ANY conditions) shouldn't receive the highest rank just because someone claims that it might be possible without buffs, with zero evidence to demonstrate that.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by vales [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there are more targets than spore king and more classes than monk, so it makes sense for that to exist in general

The reason why the self buffs no consumables rank is unfair is because casters have a much easier time doing self buff no consumable kills.

The self buff no consumables rank basically excludes melee classes on harder content. That is probably why the solo challenge page didn't create that specific rank, to be fair to classes with more of a disadvantage.

As a simple example, I can solo Ionat self buff only no consumables. That is a harder mob than Fungi King. But I am a Shaman. I'd be way more impressed if a Monk soloed Ionat. But I would have the higher rank because my class is better at killing Ionat. It's not really fair that I get the higher rank for the relatively less impressive kill compared to the Monk.

[vales]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The self buff no consumables rank basically excludes melee classes on harder content. That is probably why the solo challenge page didn't create that specific rank, to be fair to classes with more of a disadvantage..

idk why each class wouldn't just have its own category of kills, I assumed it did? seems weird to try to lump all classes together when they are unfairly balanced to begin with

it'd be cool to see the limits of a wizard, for example, displayed cleanly in its own section

[Stryker85]

Originally Posted by vales [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

idk why each class wouldn't just have its own category of kills, I assumed it did? seems weird to try to lump all classes together when they are unfairly balanced to begin with

it'd be cool to see the limits of a wizard, for example, displayed cleanly in its own section

No one is stopping you from creating your own wiki challenge page with your own rules and standards if those are the metrics that interest you. The Solo Artist Challenge wiki page was created with its own standards in mind, and someone else changing them retroactively to suit their own agenda is not acceptable, especially when its not even agreed upon by the people debating it.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by vales [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

idk why each class wouldn't just have its own category of kills, I assumed it did? seems weird to try to lump all classes together when they are unfairly balanced to begin with

it'd be cool to see the limits of a wizard, for example, displayed cleanly in its own section

Great idea if you want to create one because idk why what lorean created forever ago still holds all this weight

[Stryker85]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Great idea if you want to create one because idk why what lorean created forever ago still holds all this weight

It wasn't created by Lorean, it was created by a guy named Splorf22. Here is a link to the original thread:
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=80165

It still holds weight because these are the standards people have used for literally years. Over a decade now. This whole debate is over someone thinking their own rules and standards are best. Zuranthium's standards are so ridiculous that he think no kills should count as solo unless the person is unbuffed with no consumables.

He is so petty that he won't even create his own solo challenge wiki page with his own standards, because he wants to impose his twisted beliefs on everyone else too, like he is the solo god who should decide it all.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It wasn't created by Lorean, it was created by a guy named Splorf22. Here is a link to the original thread:
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=80165

It still holds weight because these are the standards people have used for literally years. Over a decade now. This whole debate is over someone thinking their own rules and standards are best. Zuranthium's standards are so ridiculous that he think no kills should count as solo unless the person is unbuffed with no consumables.

He is so petty that he won't even create his own solo challenge wiki page with his own standards, because he wants to impose his twisted beliefs on everyone else too, like he is the solo god who should decide it all.

100% was created by loraen. Look at splorfs post history sig and you can see all his chars. he started using his forum name raev at some point which was his monk.

But idk what’s even being argued about if there’s a missing tier that wasn’t included then just add it imo. Loraen thought he knew everything so I’m sure there’s still some room for improvement if anyone cares to do so.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Stryker85 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are the only one gate keeping the definition of a "solo kill" under YOUR OWN standards. There's a reason the wiki had a whole section about what is and what is not allowed for outside buffs, and for which classes. Convenient that you deleted all of that to support your own argument. Anyone can claim anything is true if they're the ones editing the history books. Do I need to copy/paste it every time you post to remind everyone that all of this is your OWN AGENDA that you're trying to push, and goes against the very standards that the creator of the challenge set.
"In general the idea is that you could zone in and kill the mob on your own. Outside buffs are not permitted for casters; melee can get as many buffs as they like as they are already at a considerable disadvantage."

It doesn't get any more clear than that. Nothing you can ever say will change what the original standards for the challenge were. Funny how you only saw the need to change things after someone posts a video like this, but nooo you're not envious at all, right?


Needing a separate category for an unbuffed kill WITH no consumables would imply that it is possible to do under those conditions in the first place - News Flash: It's not. How about this, if you want to create a rank higher than what was previously listed, then how about you go out and prove that its possible under those conditions before you make up said rank.


LOL OK - So let me get this straight, now raid gear is considered outside help too?? Jesus, the levels of copium here are insane.


No one here is trying to "default them to being all the same" at all. We're just simply saying that adding a rank higher than what was previously considered the top echelon of the challenge should only be done after someone proves that it's even possible to do so in the first place. You can't sit there and claim "wElL yA, bUt YoU cOuLd'Ve DoNe It UnDeR hArDeR cOnDiTiOnS" if no one has ever shown that its even remotely possible to do under those conditions.

My no charge kill was done under the absolute hardest conditions that anyone has ever solo'd the king under. There's only been 2 people that have solo'd the king prior. One used multiple "strong clicky" charges like puppet strings, slowstone amber, etc. The other used multiple characters for the kill (a druid for the pull, and then a chanter for the kill). Trying to claim that the person who did it self buffed using multiple characters is the same thing as someone doing it solo with one toon is whats disingenuous here.

If you want to create an S+ rank, then login and show us that its possible before you try to theorize your bullshit from the sidelines.

I think there's a misunderstanding here, it is a sick kill and grats on doing it.

But in a vacuum, there's a hierarchy of kills and unbuffed ranks higher. Those types of challenges exist to see how far you can push the class and solo, self buffed and no "strong clickies" is basically the highest step. If it can be done it can and if it can't it can't. The whole point is seeing what can and can't be done and finding the minimum threshold basically. If you've found it for monk on fungi king and it required buffs then so be it! You set the bar higher, you're the first to do it and possibly last.

The raid gear point is a theoretical argument about staying consistent with the rules. IIRC the solo artist challenge was during kunark era. So if today my 1400hp chanter gets an aego to 2500hp it is not considered "legal" according to the challenge but with velious power creep if I get BIS VP/TOV gear I'll probably be sitting around 2500hp self buffed. What's the difference? I'm just saying context is important. They might nerf lull to the point where you can't lull mobs above level 50 so a lot of chanters kills of yore will lose significance if that ever hits since some of the strategies will no longer be viable. That would make some newer kills more difficult thus rank higher and it will be up to chanters to see what can and can't be done under new ruleset.

P.S. I think splorf22 is lorean, and I think lorean got a clean solo chanter kill on king too.