Velious Solo/Duo Challenge Official Thread (and Trio/Group)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We both [have zero kills] since yours weren't legit.

This is incorrect, even if those videos were disqualified.

I also have a Cliff Golem, Ancient Wurm, and King Tranix kill (fully popped room, no lulls or FD). All of these were self buffed, self pulled, no consumables. You have no way to argue they weren't solo:

https://youtu.be/KPs_VghU-v4?feature=shared

https://youtu.be/4Rzw3wLWEsM?feature=shared

https://youtu.be/umuVBewCNgY?feature=shared

Three for me and Zero for you. You can post any evidence at any time. But we both know you won't.

Four kills if we end up counting Ice Burrowers. That was also self buffed, self pulled, no consumables:

https://youtu.be/5fsvt1xfuqY?feature=shared

These are just the recorded kills obviously. I don't record every kill I do.

There is no reason for my WW Dragon videos to be disqualified.

https://project1999.com/forums/showp...74&postcount=4

The post above was created after my videos were made. This post is from 2023, and my last WW Dragon video is from 2022. My Ionat video is from 2021. Rules change on the server over time. I can't predict the future.

[loramin]

I think it's worth noting that the original solo artist challenge also involved a nerf, only back then it was invis pulling:

Originally Posted by Loraen's Solo Artist Challenge

Pull help is meant to compensate for removal of invis pulls; it doesn't seem fair to penalize people who started on the challenge afterwards. Pull help is only available for Solo God/Duo GM ranks and up, mainly because many of those would be obviously impossible otherwise.

In other words, Invis pulling was allowed, and mobs were added to the guide based on it. Then the staff changed things ... and it didn't destroy the challenge!

To the contrary, Loraen simply changed the rules after it happened, in a pragmatic/sensible way. It certainly seems to me any future version of the challenge can similarly survive any changes (to Lull or anything else).

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It certainly seems to me any future version of the challenge can similarly survive any changes (to Lull or anything else).

Seems simple enough to postpone any discussion of lull changes until any nerf actually happens. If it ever does happen, then a new label/category of pre- and post- lull nerf is a straightfoward update. Similarly, any WW dragons fought in the water can be marked with a label, as that is easier than fighting on land.

Trying to talk now about a potential lull nerf that may not arrive for years is just an obstacle to consensus.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Trying to talk now about a potential lull nerf that may not arrive for years is just an obstacle to consensus.

Agreed. Everyone in the thread except for Zuranthium seems to agree with this point. We should probably just move forward without Zuranthium's lull restrictions, unless we suddenly get an influx of posters supporting it.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If it ever does happen, then a new label/category of pre- and post- lull nerf is a straightfoward update.

It's not straightforward at all. The difficulty level of the challenges is set with classic Lull taken into consideration. The exact same as they are also set with the expectation of people not using Puppet Strings or getting pull help. If people use those things it doesn't count as a valid kill for obtaining the challenge title (but any videos of doing God tier kills will still be added to the database, to allow people to showcase that kind of gameplay if they want to).

Using the cheat version of Lull is the same as getting pull help. There's no reason to mark it differently, especially when one the biggest complaints about the whole challenge concept has been how unfair it is that Enchanters have such a big advantage. The challenges would be devalued and have less variety available if allowing that totally broken, non-classic thing. There isn't any kind of unpreventable game mechanic that forces it to be included for the challenge. It's not like AC being coded incorrectly or something. It's just a spell that people are perfectly capable of not casting.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In other words, Invis pulling was allowed, and mobs were added to the guide based on it. Then the staff changed things ... and it didn't destroy the challenge!

It did destroy the challenge (one of the reasons). The tiers of the MOBs were never changed and people had to abuse Puppet Strings instead (they already had to in many cases with the way things were designed), leading to almost nobody wanting to participate. The few people who bothered to try and get a top rank back then really aren't valid, compared to doing the challenges without the cheats. Thankfully since there were so few, and it happened so long ago, it doesn't merit an argument about retroactively stripping their titles. But that situation needs to be prevented going forward. Lull is the biggest fundamentally incorrect thing in the game. There may be tweaks to the resists of other spells in the future, but it won't change the ability to actually use them. They'll still have the same amount of potential effectiveness, given enough luck, whereas Lull will simply not work.

[Duik]

Circus is back in town boys.

[Tewaz]

In 10 years the lull resist will be implemented on a dead server with Zuranthium boldly entering SG solo to fight a mob he has zero chance of defeating because of the classic changes he dug up.

He’ll die in his first pacify attempt, ask if anyone has a rez available in the now global OOC, then sadly return to the forums to fight DSM in a new thread.


“The real SAC was getting a classic server finally made* and I’d say in a solo GM Furry Gold Medal finalist” he whispers as he googles the next old school RPG to go shit all over.

*Classic EverQuest except lifetap, item recharge costs, dragon mobility, boxing, IP lockouts, dragon HP pools, and many other things that are much more important than charm duration.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It did destroy the challenge (one of the reasons). The tiers of the MOBs were never changed and people had to abuse Puppet Strings instead (they already had to in many cases with the way things were designed), leading to almost nobody wanting to participate. The few people who bothered to try and get a top rank back then really aren't valid, compared to doing the challenges without the cheats. Thankfully since there were so few, and it happened so long ago, it doesn't merit an argument about retroactively stripping their titles. But that situation needs to be prevented going forward. Lull is the biggest fundamentally incorrect thing in the game. There may be tweaks to the resists of other spells in the future, but it won't change the ability to actually use them. They'll still have the same amount of potential effectiveness, given enough luck, whereas Lull will simply not work.

The real problem is when you reach disciple you're starting to deal with mobs that summon which is a huge problem for a couple classes that don't have pet or could otherwise cheese it. This is most likely why the challenge died, it is literally the first tier of the challenge and like half of the classes can't handle it even if the mob was in an empty room.

Then you get to master and most strong melees will fall off the train due to lack of scaling. Then most mobs being indoors, live and guarded further cripples the ability for most classes to tackle them.

The rampant use of puppet strings AND even wand of allure, or druids being powerless unless there's an animal in the zone should have tipped you off that charmed pet is basically the cornerstone of the challenge and not anything else.

... and then you're making it worse by taking tools away from people. Seems to me you're more motivated to push your vendetta against certain mechanics than making a challenge that's fair for everyone in a game that largely tries to make soloing that kind of content impossible. In the end it seems like classes are so unbalanced you'll never successfully create a fair challenge for everyone unless it is class based but then it basically become a gear/rng contest at higher levels. Not even sure we have the server pop to keep this alive for long anyway.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The real problem is when you reach disciple you're starting to deal with mobs that summon which is a huge problem for a couple classes that don't have pet or could otherwise cheese it. This is most likely why the challenge died, it is literally the first tier of the challenge and like half of the classes can't handle it even if the mob was in an empty room.

Then you get to master and most strong melees will fall off the train due to lack of scaling. Then most mobs being indoors, live and guarded further cripples the ability for most classes to tackle them.

The rampant use of puppet strings AND even wand of allure, or druids being powerless unless there's an animal in the zone should have tipped you off that charmed pet is basically the cornerstone of the challenge and not anything else.

... and then you're making it worse by taking tools away from people. Seems to me you're more motivated to push your vendetta against certain mechanics than making a challenge that's fair for everyone in a game that largely tries to make soloing that kind of content impossible. In the end it seems like classes are so unbalanced you'll never successfully create a fair challenge for everyone unless it is class based but then it basically become a gear/rng contest at higher levels. Not even sure we have the server pop to keep this alive for long anyway.

Good point bringing up that most can’t be soloed. The name solo artists challenge is actually incorrect when you review the contents. It is actually the solo or duo artist challenge.

[zelld52]

I havent seen many people soloing WW dragons since they disallowed the exploit of tanking them in the water - the 6 necks, anyway