Critical Fail Combines are Amazing

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you remember what his testing looked like or not at all?

I guess you could add up how many failure/success you get and then check the skill ups proportions. I'm not sure all tradeskills are governed by the same formula though.

I don't remember the exact the details (it's been over two decades), but basically he did a bunch of combines with a trivial that was close (eg. tradeskill 100, trivial 110), and a bunch of combines with a trivial that was way far off (eg. trivial 200).

He did a lot of combines (which was a big deal back then: people didn't have the plat/items to just do a ton of combines at once), and found that he got the same skill-up rate regardless of the trivial.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That would make sense. Sadly, the original EQ Traders forums have been lost to time, as they're not on the Wayback Machine. I even emailed the "den mother" of EQ Traders, and she said she'd look and see if she had the old posts ... but then never wrote back, so I assume not even she has them.

Still, I'm 100% certain that tradeskill success (in classic) did not influence skillup success. This was something tradeskillers back then were very keen to know, so one tradeskiller finally did a series of tests, which proved that there was no connection.

At the time, this thread was "big news" among the classic tradeskilling community, so I remember it well, but now that it's lost it's probably the only "proof" that ever existed (because proving it required so much work that only a tradeskill addict on the tradeskill forum would conduct it).

Meaning the trade skill up percentage is just pure RNG? And a failure has just as much chance as increasing it as a successful combine?

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Meaning the trade skill up percentage is just pure RNG? And a failure has just as much chance as increasing it as a successful combine?

I don't think skill up chance is pure RNG, it definitely follows a curve. The higher you get the harder it is to skill up. When you first start out it is like 33% chance to skill up and in the 160s its like 12% and in the 200s like 6%. I've observed it through different tradeskills a well.

Your int/wis (or str/dex on some tradeskills) will affect your skill up chance but success rate seems fixed for a given level. What's "debated" is if it is easier to skill up on a success or not.

[cd288]

Yeah sorry I misspoke. Figured there was some scaling with level. Thanks!

[Knuckle]

after a 5 1/2 month break from eq following this trade failure I have reached nirvana and realized the devs coded this for 5% of the playerbase to briefly escape the purgatory of everquest.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Meaning the trade skill up percentage is just pure RNG? And a failure has just as much chance as increasing it as a successful combine?

Yes

[Reiwa]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think skill up chance is pure RNG, it definitely follows a curve. The higher you get the harder it is to skill up. When you first start out it is like 33% chance to skill up and in the 160s its like 12% and in the 200s like 6%. I've observed it through different tradeskills a well.

Your int/wis (or str/dex on some tradeskills) will affect your skill up chance but success rate seems fixed for a given level. What's "debated" is if it is easier to skill up on a success or not.

Darchon/Daldaen spreadsheet may govern directly in classic.

[Vaarsuvius]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes

If memory serves, one's skillup rate with a failed combine is about half that of a successful one

According to EQTraders calculator with 160 Tailoring:
https://www.eqtraders.com/calculator...r=130000000000

Success chance = 55.5%
Chance of skill up on Success: 20%, on failure: 12%, overall 16.44%

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Vaarsuvius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If memory serves, one's skillup rate with a failed combine is about half that of a successful one

According to EQTraders calculator with 160 Tailoring:
https://www.eqtraders.com/calculator...r=130000000000

Success chance = 55.5%
Chance of skill up on Success: 20%, on failure: 12%, overall 16.44%

Maybe on live EQ, but not in classic.

[loramin]

And just to clarify, yes the formula did change after the classic era; we know because it caused a bug, and players complained (from 04-13-2005):

Originally Posted by https://web.archive.org/web/20050913211357/http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/showpost.php?p=151226&postcount=16

First off, if you're over 150 in a Tradeskill, you won't notice the bug, as the bugged code isn't being called... you're now using the new formula (which is working, going from your posts).

The bug makes it very difficult to skillup at low levels in EVERY skill. Tradeskills when your skill is below 150 is still using the original skillup formula, as is every other skill (1hbash, etc.) for the whole path (1-300). Until this is fixed, if you start a new toon, or finally decide to get your Piercing (or Swimming, etc) skill up, you will find it very difficult to skill up (though not impossible).

The bug resulted from code cleanup that occurred at the same time as the new Tradeskill skillup formula, but is not a result of the new formula. The new formula seems to be working correctly. I do not know when a fix for the bug above will go Live.