Discussion: PvP Deaths (Item/Coin/XP Loot/Gain)

[Doors]

Oh christ.

[Scribbles]

nerd alert

[Not_Kazowi]

Zuranthium you are bat shit crazy dude, you are playing the wrong game sir. I have a pretty good position to talk about item loot the way I do and you honestly are so far from any kind of reality for this server. Have you ever even payed eq pvp

[Zuranthium]

I don't believe I'm playing the wrong game, I just don't think you understand the full extent of what this game could be. Yes I've played EQ PvP and there is much to improve. As always, people are arguing that a server must be exactly like another pre-existing version of the game. Never any creativity, never any thought with regards to learning from the past and learning from other games and trying to create something that is altogether better or at least more daring in its goals.

[Bockscar]

First of all, one could say a lot about Rexx, but he knows his shit. You're not gonna convince anyone that you have a better understanding of PvP - and especially of an emu PvP server - than him.

Secondly, you seem to believe that itemloot has never been tried before and that we'll all see the light if only we give it a shot. It has been tried before, both on three live servers and on the previously most consistent PvP emu. It was hugely unpopular and eventually removed from all live servers. The emu server went from like 50 to 200 players when they removed itemloot. See this entire thread or any other discussion on the subject for reasons, I'm tired of repeating them.

[Tombom]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You lead a PvP Guild on some shitty server. Congrats. There's far more to game theory than what you try to purport.



Your closed-minded assumptions as to what constitutes good PvP or what this server is going to be or the definition of classic are leading the discussion nowhere. If EQ is the only PvP you've ever played, then you should really just stop talking altogether.

The reason PvP takes place should predominantly be because players want to play in an RPG combat setting against other players, given that humans are more complex and unpredictable than the programmed PvE encounters, which leads to a far more challenging and dynamic kind of game.

PvE is the backdrop and it still needs to have importance, such as getting equipment and leveling (my example of someone leveling only from PvP is merely an option that would be available, not what is the most frugal) and most definitely the element of danger it adds to the game, but it shouldn't be what drives everything in and of itself. Getting a talented group of players together and going out and trying to defeat other groups of players should be a large goal; if you want to PvP then you should find it fun to fight other players.

Perhaps I should mention that I want a Sullon Zek kind of team-PvP with what I'm envisioning. Defending territories and missions into enemy territory should be a revolving part of the PvP experience within an immersive PvP game World. The PvE element of the game is important here for the obstacles and extra rewards it provides. I would also want daily 6v6 PvP tournaments with a ranking board for both Guilds and Individuals. These tournaments would be only about contained PvP without the added elements of PvE monsters or unequal numbers of players fighting, but PvE would still be important to these players because they would still need to go out and interact in the game World to get the necessary gear (since the most powerful items are No Drop) if they want the best odds possible.

This kind of server would be the most immersive and varied kind of competitive RPG experience you could hope for. You exist within a World where anyone can kill you at any moment (even if they are part of your same faction, you just wouldn't get any additional penalties from players of your faction), but you are ultimately battling against other factions and taking part in epic adventures where dangerous is constantly lurking and ever-changing. Many different styles of PvP would be important, from guerrilla tactics out in the game world to massive-scale battles between factions in contest zones to the more micro-oriented 6v6 battles within contained environments that don't have outside influences.

Maybe I could even be wrong about Item Loot within that vision I have for the best kind of PvP server, but I've played a plethora of MUDs and other games which allow looting and to me the feature makes it that much more realistic and terrifying. When there is the possibly of losing something tangible, you become that much more involved. Then there is this final point as well:

WAY TL did not R, consider going to divry to create your dream game.

[vinx]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I could even be wrong about Item Loot within that vision I have for the best kind of PvP server

so, your looking for support for your own server or?
I dont get it...


I think, judging by their other server and discussion threads. that this will be a classic recreation
not a custom server

[klant]

Originally Posted by Not_Kazowi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thank you god for someone pointing this out. All I've been reading is a bunch of no names crying for item loot when they clearly have no idea what they are talking about.

I led Heresy on VZTZ and played the server through both item loot eras. Item loot takes away from pvp and actually causes less of it. There is plenty of inentive to pvp without item loot. Sebilis was ALWAYS under contestion, I'm talking large 30v30 battles over just zone control, and Trakanon wouldn't even be up. Zone control is such a huge reason to pvp.

Guild rivalry is another reason pvp will always be happening, people will want to go stop enemy guilds just for fucks sake. You will see guilds go pvp enemy guilds over raid mobs they don't even need just to fuck with them.

Coin loot? Yes, exp loss sure? Iem loot? Fuck no. Even this bagged item bullshit is stupid, that totally fucks any character that needs multiple items to function. If you put in item loot it is going to skew pvp so much. Please just don't do it, it's detrimental in the long run.


Also: gtfo with this twink shit, that is such a non factor. This isn't live where you can twink a level 65 with wind striker and shit.

agree. good point, bump. no xp loss tho. I play eq for the pvp, and item loot definitely makes me want to seek pvp less. I dont have all the time in the world to sit around doing pve shit to replace lost items.

[Macedon]

for those peoples thinking item loot will help balance out twinks cause they won't risk the gear. Erm, the whole reason of a twink is to faceroll people your level, meaning you aren't going to be gaining anything, but instead griefing people your level taking stuff that they actually need, and you don't... also even if you do lose the item, you twinked the character once before, how hard could it be to get your max level char and do it again.

apart from that, there is going to be sometime before twinks actually come into play.

[Tajin]

Originally Posted by klant [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

agree. good point, bump. no xp loss tho. I play eq for the pvp, and item loot definitely makes me want to seek pvp less. I dont have all the time in the world to sit around doing pve shit to replace lost items.

Don't look at it that way, its no ones fault but themselves if they get their item ganked... u noobs need to play better... instead of crying about trying to replace lost items.. u should be stoked for getting an uber item u pked for.