Comparison of melee hybrid classes.

[vinx]

Originally Posted by Graym [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It didn't exactly take a lot of skill for a Ranger to kill a Magician on live. In fact, I never lost to either a Magician or a Necromancer on Live. Necromancers were better suited to play the Ranger to a draw if they were smart because they could keep their health up during a long fight with lifetaps, but the longer they stuck around the better the odds were the Ranger would break through and finish them off. Basically best case scenario for a Necromancer was getting away alive.

The game is a lot different when you can't rely on MR spells to finish players off. Classes that HAD ways to prevent an escape, even by luck, or heavy burst damage to get the job done were in best position to finish people off. Pet classes like Magicians and Necromancers didn't have any way of preventing the Ranger from kiting and unlike Necromancers, Magicians couldn't keep their health up so a Ranger slowly wearing down the Magician, even with old school archery / weak DoTs, would still get the kill and there was nothing the Magician could do about it. I think a lot of you played Magicians on VZTZ which was NOTHING like live PVP so you have this really skewed view of how it was. Not only did Magicians not have as good of a defense that the other casters had, their OFFENSE was not as good either. Unlike Wizards who could land spells, Magicians had more problems with resists than the other casters did.

Magicians were a nice addition to guild on guild pvp with damage shields on everyone and their pets buffed to the max and SoW'd. However, in normal one on one PVP Magicians were simply average to slightly above average. I would venture a guess quite a lot of you never played back then to know how things were. There is a reason a lot of the best magicians on Vallon Zek (like Caud) rerolled to other classes. They weren't this overpowered class that VZTZ made them out to be.

I played mage on VZ, and i would beg to differ on the 1v1 and group scenerio
1v1 mage rocks.. even 2v1
greater than that and you might as well gate.. if your pet gets rooted/mezzed you were done for without heals and roots

and you NEVER just stood there dispelling pets > nuking...chances are your pets going to get CCed.. you debuff first then spam quick nukes. takes to long and to much mana to summon a new and decent pet, so you need to be as fast as a wizard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

sure a few got resisted but you could outnuke ranger heals. (couldnt outnuke shaman/druid/cleric heals without pet melee or stun)
and once debuffed melees were rooted by the earth pets

[deneauth]

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[Humerox]

I plan on playing a ranga. I'm a masochist. Besides, I can use it as an excuse...srsly.

YOU SUCK AT TEH PVP!

I"M A RANGA!

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[Galacticus]

Originally Posted by Graym [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Another VZTZ Ranger nerf was Snare duration. It was a very effective way of dealing with pets because the Snare didn't wear off in the fight so it forced the Magician to deal with it as opposed to VZTZ where the snare would wear off the pet in very short order. This made pet classes in VZTZ quite a bit more powerful than they were supposed to be. Magicians were very easy kills for Rangers on live because of snare/ensnare and unlike players on Live where tracking occasionally bugged out, it NEVER bugged out on the pet so it was a 100% guarantee I could always find the Mage whenever I wanted.

It was also effective against heavily debuffed players in guild on guild pvp or if you ever stalemated someone who kept running, you could cast snare 100 times because if it lands ONCE the player was dead. The only class who could really take advantage of that was the Ranger because after if it landed the Ranger gets in melee and you can't dispell it. Good players would be forced to use pre-nerf pumice to get it off, so it didn't actually lead to a kill against them, but it was still a very cheap tactic solely available to Rangers because other MR spells like Root would instantly wear off if it did manage to land on someone with high MR on Live although very few players on live ever bothered trying to Root because of how infrequently it landed. The reason it was worthwhile to cast snare was because regardless of how high your MR is if Snare miraculously landed it would not wear off, you either had to dispell it or die. Snares extremely long duration was a very HUGE advantage for Rangers on live servers that did not exist on VZTZ.

While you are prolly right about VZTZ, you are having some serious illusions of grander for rangers in Kunark and velious. I too played a ranger but I Know half the shit your saying is bullshit.

You said if someone dispelled your sow you would just run away. How did you do that without sow? Chances are you relied on sow while others had Jboots and they would never let you run away.

Ranger pushback from weapons made rangers able to stop casters casting? If that were true, war, rogue and monk all would be better at this then a ranger. What stopped casters from casting was bash. You were lucky in live to even touch a good caster let alone just have him stand there while he tried to cast on you. That's why you use 2h Most of the time unless your target is snared, so when you do get that second and a half to hit the caster , your doing the most damage. A caster will run run run until he has the advantage to cast on you because he hillbugged or turned the corner over the hill or something.

You really don't remember resists ? 100 mr makes 8/10 snares resist. That was a fact.

Necromancers getting owned by rangers? You act like the ranger is gonna land all his snares and the necro won't.

Some serious memory lapse issues or you just dont know much about why you owned noobs that couldn't play their class right.

[tmoneynegro]

Originally Posted by Galacticus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ranger pushback from weapons made rangers able to stop casters casting? If that were true, war, rogue and monk all would be better at this then a ranger. What stopped casters from casting was bash.

This is wrong. When I tested with monk epic (9/16 fists) + 40% haste + monk epic haste up against a 60 necro during velious, he would have a hard time getting off a lifetap as I hit him with dual wield and no slam. We estimated a 3-4% chance to interrupt per hit from the push. All in all, it seemed like there was at least a 50% interrupt rate from swinging that much.

Originally Posted by Galacticus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You really don't remember resists ? 100 mr makes 8/10 snares resist. That was a fact.

I pvp'd 1 vs 2-30 with only 120MR during velious and never got rooted unless I got tashed. The tash had a 50% bonus to debuff or whatever on SZ.

[lethdar]

Originally Posted by Graym [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah and it's impossible to dispel. There is no way you played on a PVP server.

It is impossible to dispell against a competent prepared player unless you're gonna wand it off.

Moron.

[Titanuk]

lol@ team ranger

[Bockscar]

We should encourage his ambitions of PvPing with an ultra-fast 4dmg weapon. He knows what he's doing.

[Galacticus]

Originally Posted by tmoneynegro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is wrong. When I tested with monk epic (9/16 fists) + 40% haste + monk epic haste up against a 60 necro during velious, he would have a hard time getting off a lifetap as I hit him with dual wield and no slam. We estimated a 3-4% chance to interrupt per hit from the push. All in all, it seemed like there was at least a 50% interrupt rate from swinging that much.





I pvp'd 1 vs 2-30 with only 120MR during velious and never got rooted unless I got tashed. The tash had a 50% bonus to debuff or whatever on SZ.

Tash never had a bonus. It was good by itself. Your also comparing a monk in VELIOUS with bard haste from the epic against a Kunark ranger. In velious monks could also triple attack like warriors and flying kick. Thats way way way more then a Kunark ranger could put dish out and way faster. What 9/16 weapons u gonna find in Kunark for a ranger?

[Palemoon]

He means that eventually when resists got very high, one of the things Verant did to help out casters was make all of the resist debuff type spells (malo/tash/etc) debuff for 50 percent more in pvp.

It helped somewhat, and I imagine debuffs here will evolve that way too (if it follows "classic" )