Discussion: PvP Deaths (Item/Coin/XP Loot/Gain)

[genrah]

Agreeing with the majority simply because you are in the minority is a pretty weak minded approach. Nothing would ever get accomplished with that attitude. Fact is there is a population out there who want something different and not the same ol same ol carebear approach. I'm simply making some valid arguments about the topic while you have resorted to telling people to eat dicks. Blue server is there to fill your needs if you dont want pvp. I highly doubt anyone with a pvp mindset is going to not play on a server because it had item loot. You would be surprised how many would play that are not even on this server/forum if you had some creative, forward thinking and were not such a lemming.

-g

[Bockscar]

Wow, you really are outstandingly stupid.

TIL: democracy is a weak-minded approach that never gets anything accomplished, and if you don't want itemloot, you don't want PvP!

Astonishing logic.

[Yukahwa]

I think item loot is the best way to go. If not true normal item loot from RZ than 1 random equipped item will drop when looted so you arent guaranteed to lose your best piece.

But i think the PVP engagement range is a more significant problem.

[pickled_heretic]

Originally Posted by Bockscar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow, you really are outstandingly stupid.

TIL: democracy is a weak-minded approach that never gets anything accomplished, and if you don't want itemloot, you don't want PvP!

Astonishing logic.

TIL: Bockscar is a demi-intellectual

I don't give a shit about item loot either way, but save your pedantic sophistry for impressing your community college instructors or dumb friends. Nothing genrah said merited the vitriolic bile you spewed back at him.

[lindz]

The problem I have with item loot is that I enjoy being able to wear gear. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] You either do everything naked or as soon as you engage in pvp, you just stop doing anything and start bagging your gear. Neither is fun and I think that is key here.

[Shwingler]

Originally Posted by genrah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I find it hard to convince the need for item loot with someone named softcore pk....but here goes.

There is a desire for such a hardcore ruleset out there, and people simply dont play EQ or many MMOS today because they are geared toward carebears.

Take a few moments to scour the forums over at darkenbane.com or lucidvision.org and you will find tons of posts asking for the good old days.

DB and LV were two of the more well know pk guilds back in the early Rallos Zek days.

I personally was never in a large guild, as it meant less targets for me to pvp with. But running solo or with a small gank squad of friends I managed to kill quite a few people, nab a lot of items, and have a hell of a time doing so.

Selling stolen goods also created a black market on the server.

As a result of solid pk guilds and pk system the anti pk movement came to light. The anti pk movement had some really strong guilds and just seeing the dynamic that this created is something that has never been recreated to this day in an mmo. At the root of this was item loot.

Item loot is what draws people to the concept.. just look at where Rallos went after LDON came out and everything went no drop with augments.

Item loot was a true death penalty. You felt like someone stole $200 from you if that robe you spent 24 hours camping was ganked. The thrill of getting killed as well as killing for loot really added to this dynamic.

People think twice before attacking with good gear on, and people think twice about wearing gear out due to being attacked. Far better concept than everything is no drop = little risk/reward.

-g

The funny thing is that I bet bluebies will quickly enjoy an item loot server more after their initial anger from losing one item they worked hard to get. Item loot forces people to collaborate and reputations become MUCH more important.

Coin loot is essentially no penalty for dying unless you lure someone for a purchase and kill them for the money back or before the transaction...

On RZ a community developed that people WOULD NOT group with you based on your guild or the fact that you were guildless. Guilds would enforce their truces and policy of being anti pk or pk based on your reputation which was easily lost, and relatively impossible to regain. This prevented a LOT of griefing. People would constantly /tell officers or leaders of your guild if you abused their anti pk reputation and you were almost always swiftly booted from the guild for your actions making the entire game significantly more difficult for you as now you were KOS to everyone.

Also item loot forced classes to cooperate and form trust. The dynamic really IS what makes PVP fun. Currently on Beta this no real threat to death (time and coin which I consider minimal penalty) causes chaos. It is NOT fun to have people engage a fight with you and then you beat them and they can just keep trying again for their money back... If a pk attacks you and LOSES some gear they had... well... they will hesitate the next time.

Additionally, everyone talking about naked casters running around pking people for their items at no risk... you do not know what you are talking about. Yes naked casters have a HUGE advantage compared to naked melee. But a naked caster vs a decently geared melee or geared caster will absolutely get raped unless there are mobs or something else involved. Sure sometimes they get a bit lucky but with item loot people also alter their playstyle to this.

For example using as much no drop gear as possible until they are in a safe area. Or bagging the most important (hardest to replace) pieces if they will lose a fight.

All these components really alter the gameplay mechanics and factions for the better rather than worse. The only problem is that everyone has to get burned once to really learn how it works. If you kept raped twice it becomes your own fault for trusting the random cleric to heal you at 10% with an inc smite.... if you don't bag your mithril bp next time it is your lack of precaution.

So in list form item loot changes the following:
-Less senseless pvp
-more intelligent fight engagements
-reputation becomes important
-risk/reward becomes significant
-Population evolves to meet global interests

All in all pks will have more fun and antis will have more fun protecting and punishing those who wronged them by blocking off all zones (with numbers usually)

[Nirgon]

You can run and bag gear at the same time. You don't have to freeze in terror, you can run too. Doing a /who in zone should be a learned practice, you are making this gear bagging thing into something it isn't.

Man I don't know how RZ ever had any raiding guilds or people past 50, let alone pvp at those levels. How'd they win a test of tactics in all no-drop gear? It must have never happened.

Oh wait, they did have droppable gear. The point is you don't wear your best DROPPABLE items EVERYWHERE. People running around in red dragon breastplates and shit fully resisting anything you throw at them. These guys did just fine smacking down anyone on their bad side in their planar gear and planar/god/dragon/epic weapons. It was a fun and exciting mechanic in pvp.

Item loot is clearly ruled out, obviously for the fact of it will deter people from playing whether or not if they know it is good for the game. Months from now, you will see what I mean. Have fun attracting new players to the server when there are things MUCH worse than naked mages hunting the newbie areas because that's what all the 50s who can't hack it contesting raid targets will probably be doing.


Add to the above list that it is better to try and kill players for their gear on a raid than try to train them and just disrupt it in any way possible.

Then again, most people will just be shit spewing random pk casters, with the intelligent raid capable players being a minority.

[Akim]

Originally Posted by genrah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's the point. I don't think we should cater to blues.. there are enough options for those people out there in the mmo genre as it is.

I think they should cater to us who quit playing blue 99 but want the classic era restored and a server wipe. EXP loss is good if it's minimal at earlier levels, no exp gain, no item loss, coin loss is good too.

[genrah]

Also... Polling a bunch of bluebies about no item loot is like polling a bunch of frogs on if they like to eat flies or not. If you really want to draw in a new player base and have lasting appeal, item loot should be considered on red.

[Softcore PK]

Originally Posted by genrah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also... Polling a bunch of bluebies about no item loot is like polling a bunch of frogs on if they like to eat flies or not. If you really want to draw in a new player base and have lasting appeal, item loot should be considered on red.

Huh?? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]