Veeshan's Peak

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Duie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Link doesnt do it justice Bob. this is the number one reason you had more rotation servers than you had FTE . GMs didnt get involved too often when it came to raiding. you either worked it out or you spent a lot of time CRing

Yes I know...another thread on raiding on p99 and all the bullshit it involves. Sorry

In my opinion,

Seems like the most simple and elegant solution possible, something Devs can implement today which really would bring back that "classic feel", is ZERO gm interference for raid targets.

Guild X is going for CT, Guild Z Trains the shit outta them so they are unable to kill CT.

Normal scenario = Petitions, whining, bitching, GM intervention, suspensions, one guild getting loot over another, RnF posts, whining, bitching. Rinse and Repeat.


In my new perfect world there are no GM interventions. You don't like Guild Z training your shit? Train them back. For awhile its going to be a cluster fuck of trains. RnF will actually be worth reading again.

However, in the long run while this shitstorm is going on the intelligent players are going to realize, "shit man....we haven't killed anything worthwhile in weeks....all we do is train each other"

Once they realize this things should start to change, guild alliances, raid rotations, Big guilds letting small guilds help kill raid targets and getting to pick one item of loot off boss?! PEOPLE BEHAVING LIKE ADULTS!!?

Let the guilds police themselves. 99% of the server doesn't give a shit if Guild Z is Training Guild X in Fear. It does not effect us, we do not give a shit.

Spend your time fixing bugs, helping players with real issues and let the raid scene police its self.

The entire raid scene will deadlock if every time someone gets ready to kill Trak another guild trains them till they give up.

My option will FORCE guilds to play nice and free up DEV and GM time since they wont have to deal with the bullshit.


Not that anyone cares but, I am in Management at UPS. I learned a long time ago that if you treat your employees like children, always involving yourself every time they have the smallest issue, they will behave exactly like children. And I spent more time babysitting them than getting my work done.

However, if you treat them like intelligent adults and make them solve their own issues suddenly they have brains and are able to figure out most issues for themselves. Now a days I could not even show up to work and everything would be done and done correctly because I have a crew of people who think for themselves instead of a crew of children always looking to me to fix things.

I will admit I did not do much raiding Pre Velious and I have done ZERO raiding on P99, mostly due to not wanting to deal with all the bullshit here.

However, I think the P99 staff needs to step back and learn from my mistakes. Treat the players like adults and let the guilds police themselves and I think you will be pleasantly surprised in the long run.

they won't do it. They love being involved, no matter what they say, they want to be involved.

If not, the agreement TR/TMO came to would have held up, there wouldn't "let's put both guilds in VP at the same time and see what happens"

[Deemo]

Originally Posted by Duie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Link doesnt do it justice Bob. this is the number one reason you had more rotation servers than you had FTE . GMs didnt get involved too often when it came to raiding. you either worked it out or you spent a lot of time CRing

Yes I know...another thread on raiding on p99 and all the bullshit it involves. Sorry

In my opinion,

Seems like the most simple and elegant solution possible, something Devs can implement today which really would bring back that "classic feel", is ZERO gm interference for raid targets.

Guild X is going for CT, Guild Z Trains the shit outta them so they are unable to kill CT.

Normal scenario = Petitions, whining, bitching, GM intervention, suspensions, one guild getting loot over another, RnF posts, whining, bitching. Rinse and Repeat.


In my new perfect world there are no GM interventions. You don't like Guild Z training your shit? Train them back. For awhile its going to be a cluster fuck of trains. RnF will actually be worth reading again.

However, in the long run while this shitstorm is going on the intelligent players are going to realize, "shit man....we haven't killed anything worthwhile in weeks....all we do is train each other"

Once they realize this things should start to change, guild alliances, raid rotations, Big guilds letting small guilds help kill raid targets and getting to pick one item of loot off boss?! PEOPLE BEHAVING LIKE ADULTS!!?

Let the guilds police themselves. 99% of the server doesn't give a shit if Guild Z is Training Guild X in Fear. It does not effect us, we do not give a shit.

Spend your time fixing bugs, helping players with real issues and let the raid scene police its self.

The entire raid scene will deadlock if every time someone gets ready to kill Trak another guild trains them till they give up.

My option will FORCE guilds to play nice and free up DEV and GM time since they wont have to deal with the bullshit.


Not that anyone cares but, I am in Management at UPS. I learned a long time ago that if you treat your employees like children, always involving yourself every time they have the smallest issue, they will behave exactly like children. And I spent more time babysitting them than getting my work done.

However, if you treat them like intelligent adults and make them solve their own issues suddenly they have brains and are able to figure out most issues for themselves. Now a days I could not even show up to work and everything would be done and done correctly because I have a crew of people who think for themselves instead of a crew of children always looking to me to fix things.

I will admit I did not do much raiding Pre Velious and I have done ZERO raiding on P99, mostly due to not wanting to deal with all the bullshit here.

However, I think the P99 staff needs to step back and learn from my mistakes. Treat the players like adults and let the guilds police themselves and I think you will be pleasantly surprised in the long run.

this /agree

[fohkure]

Originally Posted by Duie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Link doesnt do it justice Bob. this is the number one reason you had more rotation servers than you had FTE . GMs didnt get involved too often when it came to raiding. you either worked it out or you spent a lot of time CRing

Yes I know...another thread on raiding on p99 and all the bullshit it involves. Sorry

In my opinion,

Seems like the most simple and elegant solution possible, something Devs can implement today which really would bring back that "classic feel", is ZERO gm interference for raid targets.

Guild X is going for CT, Guild Z Trains the shit outta them so they are unable to kill CT.

Normal scenario = Petitions, whining, bitching, GM intervention, suspensions, one guild getting loot over another, RnF posts, whining, bitching. Rinse and Repeat.


In my new perfect world there are no GM interventions. You don't like Guild Z training your shit? Train them back. For awhile its going to be a cluster fuck of trains. RnF will actually be worth reading again.

However, in the long run while this shitstorm is going on the intelligent players are going to realize, "shit man....we haven't killed anything worthwhile in weeks....all we do is train each other"

Once they realize this things should start to change, guild alliances, raid rotations, Big guilds letting small guilds help kill raid targets and getting to pick one item of loot off boss?! PEOPLE BEHAVING LIKE ADULTS!!?

Let the guilds police themselves. 99% of the server doesn't give a shit if Guild Z is Training Guild X in Fear. It does not effect us, we do not give a shit.

Spend your time fixing bugs, helping players with real issues and let the raid scene police its self.

The entire raid scene will deadlock if every time someone gets ready to kill Trak another guild trains them till they give up.

My option will FORCE guilds to play nice and free up DEV and GM time since they wont have to deal with the bullshit.


Not that anyone cares but, I am in Management at UPS. I learned a long time ago that if you treat your employees like children, always involving yourself every time they have the smallest issue, they will behave exactly like children. And I spent more time babysitting them than getting my work done.

However, if you treat them like intelligent adults and make them solve their own issues suddenly they have brains and are able to figure out most issues for themselves. Now a days I could not even show up to work and everything would be done and done correctly because I have a crew of people who think for themselves instead of a crew of children always looking to me to fix things.

I will admit I did not do much raiding Pre Velious and I have done ZERO raiding on P99, mostly due to not wanting to deal with all the bullshit here.

However, I think the P99 staff needs to step back and learn from my mistakes. Treat the players like adults and let the guilds police themselves and I think you will be pleasantly surprised in the long run.

haha, get your logic out of here at once! No one wants to hear these ridiculous notions that make perfect sense!

Chris

[Waffen]

Originally Posted by lethdar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

oh man, big things inc for bluebies.

says the fapper of red pixels.

[mostbitter]

Originally Posted by Duie View Post
Link doesnt do it justice Bob. this is the number one reason you had more rotation servers than you had FTE . GMs didnt get involved too often when it came to raiding. you either worked it out or you spent a lot of time CRing

Yes I know...another thread on raiding on p99 and all the bullshit it involves. Sorry

In my opinion,

Seems like the most simple and elegant solution possible, something Devs can implement today which really would bring back that "classic feel", is ZERO gm interference for raid targets.

Guild X is going for CT, Guild Z Trains the shit outta them so they are unable to kill CT.

Normal scenario = Petitions, whining, bitching, GM intervention, suspensions, one guild getting loot over another, RnF posts, whining, bitching. Rinse and Repeat.


In my new perfect world there are no GM interventions. You don't like Guild Z training your shit? Train them back. For awhile its going to be a cluster fuck of trains. RnF will actually be worth reading again.

However, in the long run while this shitstorm is going on the intelligent players are going to realize, "shit man....we haven't killed anything worthwhile in weeks....all we do is train each other"

Once they realize this things should start to change, guild alliances, raid rotations, Big guilds letting small guilds help kill raid targets and getting to pick one item of loot off boss?! PEOPLE BEHAVING LIKE ADULTS!!?

Let the guilds police themselves. 99% of the server doesn't give a shit if Guild Z is Training Guild X in Fear. It does not effect us, we do not give a shit.

Spend your time fixing bugs, helping players with real issues and let the raid scene police its self.

The entire raid scene will deadlock if every time someone gets ready to kill Trak another guild trains them till they give up.

My option will FORCE guilds to play nice and free up DEV and GM time since they wont have to deal with the bullshit.


Not that anyone cares but, I am in Management at UPS. I learned a long time ago that if you treat your employees like children, always involving yourself every time they have the smallest issue, they will behave exactly like children. And I spent more time babysitting them than getting my work done.

However, if you treat them like intelligent adults and make them solve their own issues suddenly they have brains and are able to figure out most issues for themselves. Now a days I could not even show up to work and everything would be done and done correctly because I have a crew of people who think for themselves instead of a crew of children always looking to me to fix things.

I will admit I did not do much raiding Pre Velious and I have done ZERO raiding on P99, mostly due to not wanting to deal with all the bullshit here.

However, I think the P99 staff needs to step back and learn from my mistakes. Treat the players like adults and let the guilds police themselves and I think you will be pleasantly surprised in the long run.

I am in Management at UPS.

You really show your wisdom in this post thinking that letting a bunch of people terrorize each other with no intervention is somehow going to end with things being better and everyone hugging. Your way is the way it was done on TZ and the result was that one guild became dominant, competition faded, and the population dwindled. You probably know better though after all you're a manager at UPS.


Aside from that rediculousness that keeps being spewed I think that no CS involvement in VP is fantastic. These top tier raiders on this server are undoubtedly the most detrimental to the long term health of this server as they are the people who are using third party programs, and behaving like children. Everquest was a game that required team work. People didn't progress through content by only working with their own teams. People reached across servers to make it work. Here we have maybe 300 odd people who can't work together. Instead of growing up and realize that 12 year old emulated content doesn't amount to dick they shit up the forum with complaints about how the staff wants to run their own server, that they themselves put their own time and effort into. I think the top end of this server needs a lesson in humility and losing corpses because they want to act like adolescents over ancient pixels might be a good start.

[Klyre]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Veeshan's Peak will be released the same night the PvP Server goes live. This will be some time in early November. Keep an eye out for that announcement.

How it will work will be as follows. Any raid guild with sufficient force (Which I guess is only 2 of you right now, but things can always change) will need to be at the entrance to VP at a time and date to be specified. All guilds present will /random and will pick from the 6 mobs in order until all are chosen. They will then have until a second time that will be specified, most likely 24 hours, to kill their chosen mobs before they become free FTE.

Any guild that choses to raid VP on the night of opening will forfeit all other raid mobs for 48 hours. This is to encourage other smaller guilds a chance to experience raid encounters without them being slain minutes after spawning.

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's something to talk about.. I have also heard that CS would not involve themselves in any matters whatsoever within veeshan's peak on eqlive back in the day. I think even nilbog confirmed this. That would make for some interesting situations in VP if the guilds were to start training / kill stealing eachother. I'm not against that if that's how the players want it to be.

Disclaimer: This will not be the case unless/until I officially state it is. Discuss it though, I'm interested to hear your opinions.

________________________________________

Originally Posted by Azazel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok, so what you are saying is that both guilds can fuck each other over with ease. Isn't the solution obvious? Start talking to each other and work something out between you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftin
- Rogean told us privately the day of the patch to come to an agreement regarding VP. Both sides made concessions and we presented a plan for a modified, time-limited rotation to rogean that same weekend. It was basically instantly rejected and we were told Nilbog wanted to talk to us about it.

Originally Posted by Dr4z3r [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was responding to people asking why TMO/TR couldn't just come to an agreement by pointing to an instance of them doing precisely that. The bit about the GM's rejecting it isn't as relevant.

Edit: Also kudos on getting the name right.

You are saying that you presented an agreement that was rejected by the third party (Oh yeah there is someone else in the negotiation – Rogean and Niblog) that you stopped considering any other options?

Originally Posted by Kawai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

thank you for the update. i got a few questions :

if each dragon being rolled by the potential 2 (as you said) guilds showing with a (maybe) 24h timer to kill what's gonna happen in the case that follow :

# guild A got SW and Xygoz and nexona, guild B the others 3 . Guild A wipe on sw (can happen) and the way vp is , you have to kill Silverwings to go further in. SO does it mean guildB need to wait guild A to kill SW or wipe 24h on it to be able to attemps others dwagons ? and so have vp fte because one guild can't kill the dragon #1 in the kill order ?

# nother concern: first VP clear is done, how do we handle repop ? ffa ?

Kawi
ps: this is personnal question , am not representing my guild here

HHHmmmm did it ever occur to anyone that by simply agreeing to work together and killing all the Dagon’s together with the understanding that no matter who kills the loot goes to the guild that won the lottery for that particular mob. Hey what a concept – Everyone walks out of VP skipping hand in hand brandishing their new loot. But no we don’t want that, we want the other guild to wipe so we can get all the shinny things and be able to say “Nah Nah na nah nahhh”

Oh never mind – Train on.

[Trystych]

HHHmmmm did it ever occur to anyone that by simply agreeing to work together and killing all the Dagon’s together with the understanding that no matter who kills the loot goes to the guild that won the lottery for that particular mob. Hey what a concept – Everyone walks out of VP skipping hand in hand brandishing their new loot. But no we don’t want that, we want the other guild to wipe so we can get all the shinny things and be able to say “Nah Nah na nah nahhh”

This was a point both TR and TMO agreed on. TR had hopes of going into VP with 18 people and trying to best silverwing, but the zone was not complete in time due to an act of god striking Nilbogs house, and by the time it was we had around than 50 keys completed and now far more than that. The idea of zoning into VP and roflstomping dragons with well over 100 people (assuming TR and TMO were to joint raid, which will not happen) is anticlimactic.

Mark me down for the standard raid rules applying to VP side, my preference would be to not have the pinnacle of kunark raid zones become a train and grief fest. If I wanted that kind of horseshit I would be in luck since red99 opens the same day.

[Krissdu64]

Let VP FFA imo, and raid ban every guild who trains or do anything against TR. Oh wait, nevermind that's how it goes already [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Thatguy05]

Originally Posted by Krissdu64 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let VP FFA imo, and raid ban every guild who trains or do anything against TR. Oh wait, nevermind that's how it goes already [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol'd

[nilbog]

Hilarious indeed.

Turn this into a guild v guild drama, and I'll delete your posts and ban you.

This thread is about VP opening, and it's in Server Chat.