Discussion: PvP Deaths (Item/Coin/XP Loot/Gain)

[stonetz]

item loot / exp loss is going to piss people off and may run them off.
I'm also concerned it would make people run from PVP when they might normally fight.
I played a melee under item loot and I can remember tanking away when a naked caster would walk up drop a nuke and then loot your best piece.

That said I'd be ok with item loot but I don't think it's good for the health of the server.
Coin loot, it's your fault if you can't bank properly.
XP is going to piss people off so much they quit, if you gain the XP they lose that might be a cool way to level up though.

[oldfish]

Originally Posted by stonetz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

item loot / exp loss is going to piss people off and may run them off.
I'm also concerned it would make people run from PVP when they might normally fight.
I played a melee under item loot and I can remember tanking away when a naked caster would walk up drop a nuke and then loot your best piece.

That said I'd be ok with item loot but I don't think it's good for the health of the server.
Coin loot, it's your fault if you can't bank properly.
XP is going to piss people off so much they quit, if you gain the XP they lose that might be a cool way to level up though.

I think this cant be overstated enough, we are playing here to have fun and the server will probably have a low population. If people are only grinding to 50 and then twinking so they never lose xp, its not going to be fun IMO.

IIRC, there was no xp loss on Rallos Zek. That was the fun of it and why I leveled so slowly. Sometimes youd be leveling somewhere, get pvp'd and dropped XPing to PVP. With xp loss alot of people will just run after dying once i fear.

And wow, of course PVP xp wasnt on classic, but it would be tons of fun to put it in if its easy to code a diminishing return on xp gain.

But for xp loss again, i think it should not be there at all, we play on red to pvp, i want to practice pvp alot and with xp loss i just dont see myself having fun pvping alot because most likely i will die alot (especially since im not part of the big 2 guilds). The 10 minutes wait to start pvping again (Mana and health drop) is quite enough of a penalty already IMO.

[jensonpjenson]

My Opinion:

EXP loss is the real detriment, so minimizing it in conjunction with the post-death buff already in the game is a great idea.

Coin Loot is essential.

Item Loot (1 item) is essential, bearing in mind that people can always bag their items to stop them from getting looted.

It gives a great incentive to try and stay alive as long as possible, gives a great incentive to PvP, and really means something in a world where items are as sacrosanct as they are in EQ.

This was what made Rallos as powerful an experience as it was.

Thanks.

[oldfish]

Im not sure if you guys read the thread where i posted this, so ill add it here as feedback. This is another reason why i think XP loss is a bad thing:

People like me like to pvp. I dont give up easy. If i get killed solo by 3 guys late at night with no backup, i wont just turn tail and run. Ill wait till they are stuck in a situation where they got their hands full and jump them 1v3. Ill continue PVP even with odds stacked against me (unless its something stupid like 6v1 but its always funny to get 2 before you die).

My point being, XP loss wont stop people who like to PVP from "Bind rushing" AKA playing the game. Its not a deterrent enough for people whose main purpose for playing on a pvp server is to... pvp. It will just set them back in the PVE grind. At some point, some people might decide that EQ PVP is already "boring" as it is (sitting down for 5-10mins each time you die) that the extra PVE grind on top of it isnt worth the fun you get from PVPing.

[Softcore PK]

Originally Posted by oldfish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im not sure if you guys read the thread where i posted this, so ill add it here as feedback. This is another reason why i think XP loss is a bad thing:

People like me like to pvp. I dont give up easy. If i get killed solo by 3 guys late at night with no backup, i wont just turn tail and run. Ill wait till they are stuck in a situation where they got their hands full and jump them 1v3. Ill continue PVP even with odds stacked against me (unless its something stupid like 6v1 but its always funny to get 2 before you die).

My point being, XP loss wont stop people who like to PVP from "Bind rushing" AKA playing the game. Its not a deterrent enough for people whose main purpose for playing on a pvp server is to... pvp. It will just set them back in the PVE grind. At some point, some people might decide that EQ PVP is already "boring" as it is (sitting down for 5-10mins each time you die) that the extra PVE grind on top of it isnt worth the fun you get from PVPing.

People sometimes deciding not to get into fights because they might die? Sounds pretty great to me; realism is fun.

[Lovely]

I'm truly looking forward to a real XP loss in PVP. It gotta hurt when you die or it's no fun at all.

Item loot I'm only against cause I think it would make a lot of people give up and quit the server. Otherwise I'd like that also.. But the community isn't big enough these days.

[oldfish]

Originally Posted by Lovely [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm truly looking forward to a real XP loss in PVP. It gotta hurt when you die or it's no fun at all.

Item loot I'm only against cause I think it would make a lot of people give up and quit the server. Otherwise I'd like that also.. But the community isn't big enough these days.

Xp loss is almost as bad as item loss.

People will get deleveled by gank trains for the lulz.

[oldfish]

Originally Posted by oldfish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im not sure if you guys read the thread where i posted this, so ill add it here as feedback. This is another reason why i think XP loss is a bad thing:

People like me like to pvp. I dont give up easy. If i get killed solo by 3 guys late at night with no backup, i wont just turn tail and run. Ill wait till they are stuck in a situation where they got their hands full and jump them 1v3. Ill continue PVP even with odds stacked against me (unless its something stupid like 6v1 but its always funny to get 2 before you die).

My point being, XP loss wont stop people who like to PVP from "Bind rushing" AKA playing the game. Its not a deterrent enough for people whose main purpose for playing on a pvp server is to... pvp. It will just set them back in the PVE grind. At some point, some people might decide that EQ PVP is already "boring" as it is (sitting down for 5-10mins each time you die) that the extra PVE grind on top of it isnt worth the fun you get from PVPing.

Originally Posted by Softcore PK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People sometimes deciding not to get into fights because they might die? Sounds pretty great to me; realism is fun.

Thats not what i meant, how about people leaving the server, does that sound fun?

Or people racing to 50 without PVPing, that sound fun?

Anyway at this point ill wait and see, i think xp loss is a bad idea but whatever

[xblade724]

XP Death >> Terrible idea. This has been the worst:

* Population will exponentially rage quit. Easy to get over lost coin, even if plentiful, but not xp death
* Deep morale loss -- go to a beer, come back dead, not only xp is gone with countless hours wasted, but also out of mana!
* Clerics will be the richest on the server hands down - later on , economy will be broken
* Too scared to pvp because of xp deaths -- don't worry about too many pkers if this was the original case; remember the original red? It becomes 90% anti anyways and almost requires you to have a good guild for a good group
* Ganking is too easy, too common, someone just swings by and hits you once when running away from a mob. XP loss.
* Guards not being able to defend you makes no feeling of safe haven anywhere. Original game, nothing more satisfying then running low hp to a guard and going to a guard knowing that kelethin music means you are almost safe, and grabbing a beer n taking a sh*t -- when can we grab a beer and take a sh*t? When?!


While on the topic,
Guards not defending >> Terrible idea. This has been the.. 2nd worst:

* NOT fun that the guards won't do shit for you unless ally (current system) -- by the time you are ally with a guard, it doesn't MATTER anymore! When are there guards that make a difference at higher levels?
* NOT fun that 1 person can grind to get ally faction and just go around the city destroying people, but if 1 person were to attack him (despite his 20-kill streak), the guards attack you back, making him completely invulnerable to anything and anyone if in a city
* Oldschool feeling of a safe haven with the epic guards (in classic)
* It's very fun trying to find alternate ways to kill someone by the guards (in classic)
* Fun to find creative spots where the guards won't attack you in a city (in classic)
* Factions are meaningless now unless ally .. each one on classic used to have a purpose. The guards will simply defend whoever is higher. It's FUN to be a pker and decide if you are going to risk you're higher faction than the other guy. Or having some poor sap attack you realizing you are warmly when they are indifferent. Remember the scale?
>> If you are Indifferent, the guards will protect you from anyone indifferent (same) or below
>> If you are Amiable, the guards will protect you from anyone indifferent or below (same with Warmly)
>> If you are ally, the guards will protect you from ANYONE unless they are ally as well (then they won't intervene)
>> If both ally, they won't intervene at all

[Liebestod]

1.) a.) If you were one hit from impending death, your chances of survival were not guaranteed anyways.

b.) If you have to grab a beer, take a shit, or otherwise be away from your screen, log the FUCK out. That's just retarded. Back in live I went to the char select screen, somehow it logged me back in, and I lost an item (Rallos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]) Now I know just to go back to server select.

2.) Faction/Guard protect will be fixed when they can. They know.

If you are worried about people not pvp'ing because they fear exp loss, why are you not worried they avoid pve for the same reason? Plus from what I understand you lose WAY more in PVE than in PVP. Even if you didn't.... you should be prepared for that when you chose to play here. It wasn't a secret.