new rules terrible

[Vladigan]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Causing XP Loss:
• The Staff strongly supports and encourages the use of PvP by guilds to enact their wishes throughout the world, but only PvP that is within the rule-set of this server. Intentionally causing experience (or a PvE) death to a player, or utilizing and/or manipulating NPCs/Mobs to cause intentional damage and/or death to a player is AGAINST the rules. All players need to know that attacking a raid party while they are engaged on a raid mob is NOT against the rules, however, as soon as a player brings intentionally brings NPCs/Mobs into that PvP encounter they are breaking the rules, and can be banned for such actions."

Unenforceable, requires running Fraps 24/7, will result in 1% getting punished while 99% get away with it. Any rule which lends itself to such a result should not be a rule. Also, mobs are part of PVP, learn to not engage while PVP may be incoming, learn how to invis / sidestep mobs, go out and proactively engage potential griefers before they can grief you and kill them, etc. etc.

Just want to bring to your attention the two points that seem to void each other out...

"Intentionally causing experience (or a PvE) death to a player, or utilizing and/or manipulating NPCs/Mobs to cause intentional damage and/or death to a player is AGAINST the rules"

and

"Also, mobs are part of PVP, learn to not engage while PVP may be incoming"

I can see where this would create confusion. You say you can't use an NPC for PVP but then say that NPC's are part of PVP. I am assuming you were more concerned about training which you seemed to cover pretty well in another section.

I would recommend revising this section so the true intent of it is clearly understood. Thanks

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Vladigan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can see where this would create confusion.

Whew. At least two people have common sense around here.

[Darwoth]

seems like for some reason or other staff feels the need to interfere and meddle creating a bunch of rules lawyering bullshit just like on blue when the majority of the playerbase want to be left alone to do as they please when it comes to player interactions.

dont know why and have stopped bothering to try and figure it out, but it really is unfortunate as this drives off just as many people as any of the other mainline issues here.

why is it so unacceptable to simply adopt a "tough shit, your on your own for everything other than hackers and bugs" stance when most here want it that way, and it would mean infinitely less work for said staff?

[Nirgon]

Head of CSR reportedly has "no time" -> Logs in immediately to server broadcast against us and hand down punishments.

You tell me Darwoth.

[heartbrand]

Originally Posted by Darwoth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

seems like for some reason or other staff feels the need to interfere and meddle creating a bunch of rules lawyering bullshit just like on blue when the majority of the playerbase want to be left alone to do as they please when it comes to player interactions.

dont know why and have stopped bothering to try and figure it out, but it really is unfortunate as this drives off just as many people as any of the other mainline issues here.

why is it so unacceptable to simply adopt a "tough shit, your on your own for everything other than hackers and bugs" stance when most here want it that way, and it would mean infinitely less work for said staff?

Can someone please appoint this man President of the red server? This is supposed to be a PVP server not a lawyer vs lawyer server

[Autotune]

Blue pen just laid the smack down on your red box.

[Null]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Petition Rules
• GM's and guides are unpaid volunteers who put forth their time and effort to make your experience more enjoyable. They will be treated with the respect that they are deserving of or you may face disciplinary action."

Disagree, we the players have no voice in who the GM's and Guides are so why should those imposed upon us with no vote expect to be respected?

Think of the server less like a country that you are living in and more like a free hostel in a city of free hostels. If someone is going to be a prick, shit on the floor and walk around acting entitled to the staff then they can get the fuck out. There are plenty of other hostels around, ours has a pool and go karts though so wipe your feed imho.

"Accountability:
Our server is a Guild vs. Guild server, and as such a Guild (or alliance of guilds) can be punished for the actions of its members. The basic message here is for guild leaders to keep a leash on some of the more colorful members. To clarify, If a member of Guild_A trains Guild_B, then the staff reserves the right to take disciplinary action not only against the player doing the training, but also to take identical actions against the highest ranking leader or officer (as determined by the staff) online at the time of the incident. So, if you're in the officer/leader role of your guild, we can and will hold you accountable for the conduct of your members. If you have a member training in such and such zone and you're online, don't be surprised if we suspend you as well in addition to him. You are responsible for your own guild members. Till Death Do You Part, For Better *or* For Worse. And disguising your officers as members won't work. We know who generally runs the show in each guild."

Terrible, dumb, retarded, etc. People should never be punished for the sins of others, this isn't the year 2000 B.C in Mesopotamia. This is a server that lends itself to zerg vs. zerg which inevitably means there are going to be some dumbasses, punish those who act not those who do not. Pretty simple.

This is here to combat guilds perpetuating a culture of violating rules, where 'taking one for the team' is rewarded post suspension. It provides motivation for officers and guild leaders to keep their dregs in line. It also has real world analogies far beyond 2000B.C. Mesopotamia...such as this. The intent here is not to hit officers and guild leaders whenever their members misstep, its to punish them if they repeatedly show that they can not control their guild members.

"Causing XP Loss:
• The Staff strongly supports and encourages the use of PvP by guilds to enact their wishes throughout the world, but only PvP that is within the rule-set of this server. Intentionally causing experience (or a PvE) death to a player, or utilizing and/or manipulating NPCs/Mobs to cause intentional damage and/or death to a player is AGAINST the rules. All players need to know that attacking a raid party while they are engaged on a raid mob is NOT against the rules, however, as soon as a player brings intentionally brings NPCs/Mobs into that PvP encounter they are breaking the rules, and can be banned for such actions."

Unenforceable, requires running Fraps 24/7, will result in 1% getting punished while 99% get away with it. Any rule which lends itself to such a result should not be a rule. Also, mobs are part of PVP, learn to not engage while PVP may be incoming, learn how to invis / sidestep mobs, go out and proactively engage potential griefers before they can grief you and kill them, etc. etc.

This area might need a bit of rewording. AFAIK the intent here is to stop training (ill get more into this in the next quote) and not to require people to completely disengage or not initiate when mobs are involved. We are talking this part over in the staff forum, but the wording here is tricky so if any wordsmiths want to have a hand at this one (or any other rules) we wouldn't complain.

"Training:
Intentionally causing experience death to a player, or utilizing NPCs to cause intentional damage or death to a player is against the rules. If you make a mistake, try and make it right. If you need Staff assistance to help make the situation right, let us know. Remember, taking advantage of a bad situation that you have caused on accident is just as bad as doing it on purpose in the first place."

Same thing not enforceable, should be legit tactic for example training out guilds that want to turtle at a zone line.

Bluntly, training isn't going to be legal, but it wasn't legal on live and it still happened. If anything the fact that it was illegal kept it in the realm of tactic and not a complete replacement for actual PvP, just like <insert sports analogy>.

"Bind Rushing/Camping, Corpse Camping:
The staff reserves the right to step in if we feel that Bind Rushing, Bind Camping, or Corpse Camping has become or is becoming excessive."

That's why you can plug.

This is here to protect new players from being griefed off the server before becoming invested almost exclusively. The only other situation that I can imagine where a established player would get staff protection from the above is if it was causing issues for staff rectifying an outside issue (like we cannot resolve a petition because the dude is in a constant state of loading). Even then it would have to be one hell of a petition to warrant getting involved like that.

[Nirgon]

If someone is going to be a prick, shit on the floor and walk around acting entitled to the staff then they can get the fuck out.

Or they can stay here and continue performing acts that risk the project being shut down and bully the staff.

I have no problems with Null or Amelinda (aside from a tiff or two).

The rules leave much to be desired and certainly are grounds for further ridiculousness where there should be none. Things need to be clearly spelled out, especially in known and documented cases that have tried and succeeded in breaking these rules before or known petitioned cases where a player left with a bad taste in his/her mouth.

[Null]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The rules leave much to be desired and certainly are grounds for further ridiculousness where there should be none. Things need to be clearly spelled out, especially in known and documented cases that have tried and succeeded in breaking these rules before or known petitioned cases where a player left with a bad taste in his/her mouth.

well, start shooting off examples.

[Nirgon]

Of what?

People staying around here and shitting things up? The community has called for the head of Richgirl etc many times. There is one way to resolve and silence this.

Or grey areas within these rules that were some how neglected? As Amelinda has said to others before she can kindly check her inbox. She can forward you this and discuss. I think my suggestions are nonpartisan and very constructive.