Two-Boxing

[bylbob]

Well the problem is in 6 months or so (or now for red) the server will be completly dead without two boxing, unless Velious goes live, but i seriously doubt that.
Because there will be next to zero grouping at lower lvl (and it is allready starting) so no influx of new players unless they play solo class.

[fishingme]

Originally Posted by Danyelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You should leave opinions out of any argument you intend to be taken seriously. Whether or not any given expac ruined the game is an opinion. Whether or not boxing itself ruined the game is also an opinion. However, that being said, you are still right. There is not a second version of P99, or any other server, that is Classic and also permits boxing. If you want Classic you have to come here. But you can't box here. People play here, obviously, because they want Classic EQ. I have never heard anyone say "Yeah let's go to Project 1999 so we can finally get level 95 and play Veil of Alaris content!". However, there is no boxing-friendly Classic EQ alternative. So anyone who wants Classic is stuck making the decision of which they want more, Classic EQ or the ability to box. Just like anyone that wants modern/closer to modern EQ has to make the polar opposite decision of what they want more, modern EQ or a server that prohibits boxing.

In the end, the staff of any given server, be it Sony, Rogean, Cavedude etc, has the final say in what they want on their server and boxing is included in that. Since you shouldn't expect them to make a second server, one for boxing and one without it, just to satiate your needs (It'd be pointless anyway, most of the players would play the boxing enabled server just for convenience-sake whether they box themselves or not.) you're left to make the decision of what you want more. Classic EQ? Or the ability to box 2+ characters? People should thoroughly think that over before starting to play on P99, because the server's rules aren't going to change just for you.

I don't understand why you put in what I put in bold right there. This is a 2-boxing thread on a classic server. What I had said is clearly not an opinion it's a fact or people wouldn't 2-box here at all.

[casdegere]

2 boxing is not the answer.

People will be 4 boxing and have camps locked down single-handedly. Some people have no life and have many accounts waiting for boxing to be allowed. People will group with themselves and will not be grouping with you. Not allowing 2 boxing is genius. This slow down is due to several newer games being released and summer, nothing more. These new games will get boring and people will be back. The naysayers are people who do not like people who succeed like Rogean or people who banned their friends. These same people are obviously used to getting what they want and not getting it makes them cry so they darken the forums with their QQing angst that is getting really old and predictable.

It's the people that make the server not the pixels. These guys have systematically taken out the bad elements in favor of classic EQ. I come here for the classic experience. In 1999 ther was not alot of 2 boxing going on. Graphic intensive online gaming was fairly new, modems and bandwidth were not as they are today, either was paying a monthly fee. It was all ground-breaking for the most part. Most 2 boxing did not occur until people with high level characters began to move on and RMT for plat had been realized. I myself left and came back to live several times.

Get over yourselves and either choose to play the game or not.

[Morgander]

Originally Posted by LizardNecro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dekrastius, I appreciate your argument. Let me give you a differing view. My first character on live was a warrior. It can be quite frustrating to be LFG as an untwinked, poorly geared warrior. One of the core ways to start a group was to find a cleric who was LFG.

While I understand your personal dilemma, I must also stress the fact that you had the option at your disposal, on equal terms with all players, to choose a class that was less group dependent.

I remember finding a warrior cleric duo who were xping. I asked them if I could join. The cleric didn't say anything, and the warrior said he was fine, thanks. I realized that this was a single individual who was boxing.

By boxing, this person effectively removed himself from the pool of available group mates. If he had been a cleric unable to box, then that would have been someone I could have grouped with.

Again, and I don't disagree with your logic here, but the fact remains that this isn't anything different from a necromancer who's soloing. You could ask him if he wants a group, but he might just say, "I'm fine, thanks" and you're still left alone while he kills things for himself. It's still one player doing content he can do, that you cannot, via the means provided to him through his class.

On live, this problem was somewhat mitigated by the fact that it was expensive to box. You had to pay 2x the subscription fee, so not everyone did it. But on an emu, accounts are free. I checked in some of the other emu servers, and I could *never* find a group. Why? Because everyone was boxing! Boxing completely destroys the grouping aspect of EQ when it is done on a large scale.

I knew people who two-boxed on live, and it wasn't really all that expensive. The games came rather cheap early on as expansions came out, and building a second, lower end computer that could run EQ was rather inexpensive all things considered. But I do agree with you for the most part on this.

So I would make the argument that it's especially important to keep boxing banned. And this is honestly the only reason I started playing on this server in the first place. I never would have made a character on a server where boxing was allowed, because I'm interested in playing EQ *with* other people, not being surrounded by boxers.

This I just have to disagree with. So long as one single person isn't trying to be a selfish jerk by taking huge amounts of content away from groups of players, I in all honesty see very few reasonable arguments that can be made about boxing. If one player is running four characters and thus is able to single handedly camp half of Sol B by him or herself, then fine I agree. But if that one player is doing a single camp and he doesn't want you to join, that's his choice. My enchanter here was able to solo half the named in Sol B solo using charm at level 50, but I left the entire zone once a full group came in asking about camps. I did this because in my own moral code, I believed that allowing content to be utilized by 6 people was more important than hogging it all for my singular self. I put myself in their shoes and that made the answer easy for me. Telling players that they cannot play more than one character would be akin in some ways as telling specific classes that if they solo, they're gonna get banned because they're taking too much content from others who could be experiencing it as a group. I could solo any named in Lower Guk as an enchanter, and I was at liberty to do so, so I wouldn't take well to the idea of being demanded that I give it up just because another player's class cannot solo it like I can.

I'd give up content because it's the right thing to do. I'd also let others join me because it's fun, I'm social, and it's the right thing to do. Forcing people to choose how to play the game, especially when the game was coded to allow multiple classes to be played by a single person (it's within the confides of the code, the code doesn't prevent it, albeit how simple the code was for a game back then), isn't appropriate in my personal opinion.

[Hollywood]

Boxing has a stigma around it that's unnecessary - and sadly they've let it dictate the IP exemption rulings.

This is unfortunate as most multiple connections would be for only two users, not three, four or a whole apartment building.

It would also free up the back log of IP exemptions they keep saying are holding them back from responding to people's requests.

In response to some of the comments already:

People starting late on P99 face the already daunting task of playing EverQuest again, while also trying to find groups. We all know how that goes.

Now imagine if you meet someone dual boxing - he's a decent person, reliable connection and plays consistently. He offers to let you join him. You're now halfway to a full group. Your halfway to a full group. Of course, that one extra character he's boxing is admittedly only one character. You could probably shout for someone to join you. However that character may just happen to have a class you REALLY need, like a healer or an enchanter.


Boxing's pitfalls are far exaggerated and here's somethings to consider:

A) Boxing is a problem when server populations are high - obviously because it erodes the resources for experience i.e. you take mobs, split camps and can be in people's way.
B) The amount of solo capable classes on P99 (or old EverQuest in general), means that boxing isn't giving single persons any huge advantage and it's further more not affecting the economy because people have more power to do things they would normally require others for... again due to the fact that they can just play a over powered caster class.


I strongly feel that the disagreement over this and the limits in place are more a result of the negative connotation surrounding boxing, rather than actual facts or instances where boxing used to occur and it was so horrendous that action needed to be taken.

I have a belief that if we allowed two users per IP, we'd see more player population not just character population as brothers, sisters, visiting friends, and student roomates would be able to share in the joy of old EQ thanks to project 1999.

[Pierth]

If boxing is something you want to do, there are several other servers for that- go to them.

[Honest]

Originally Posted by Pierth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If boxing is something you want to do, there are several other servers for that- go to them.

I think it pretty much boils down to this. Easy fix for those who want to box.

[Kevlar]

Originally Posted by Honest [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think it pretty much boils down to this. Easy fix for those who want to box.

Yup. Excellent advice indeed. Me and the other 600-800 peak players missing seem to have taken it.

[Sethius]

Originally Posted by Kevlar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yup. Excellent advice indeed. Me and the other 600-800 peak players missing seem to have taken it.

You might be being a little (or a lot) presumptuous with this statement. I am one of the 600-800 people missing (or I was), and it is not because I wanted to box. My opinion on boxing is it ruins most of the real fun of EQ (group based open dungeons) and turns it into a solo grind akin to the plethora of modern mmo's out there, including many free ones.

I think a lot of people are not playing now because Kunark has been out quite awhile and the population has settled, for various reasons. The population always jumps back up when things get interesting again for the hardcore people who do everything faster than the casuals.

Besides all that, even with the population at 300-400 in the evening, I have had no issues getting groups lately since I returned. Some areas are more populated than others, and the populated areas change from night to night it seems, but most nights I end up grouped and having fun.

Boxing would likely make even less people want to group, so someone like me that plays EQ for the actual grouping would have less chance of finding a group, and I don't like that option personally.

[Ravager]

I haven't been logging on lately, because of work and summer (I'd rather be grilling with friends and fishing when it's nice out than playing EQ), but when I do log on to any one of my many alts, I'm not standing around very long before I get invited to a group. Half the time I don't even have LFG up. I owe this to there being no boxing allowed on this server. If people are allowed to box, what would they need me for? And I know if boxing were allowed, I could do it myself, but what's the point of playing an MMO if you're only going to play with yourself?