Raid Changes

[sanluen]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Moreover, there'd be no incentive to FTE him every time because almost everyone in the top guilds has a warrior epic already. It's getting to the point where people are farming maestro just to sell the MQ. If more people have access to maestro, the value of the MQ is lowered, and there's less reason to farm it for plat.

There are still plenty of active mains who need their hand of maestro. He also isn't purely an 'epic mob' and does have other loot. Granted it all sucks, but the same can be said for Draco and the BCG. This could also be extended to Innoruuk, he has 2 useful drops and a bunch of crap - why put him on variance?

In the end I would love to see maestro's variance removed, and the variance of other mobs lessened or removed, but I don't think maestro is a particularly unique case and any changes should also include other mobs of similar difficulty / importance.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by sanluen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are still plenty of active mains who need their hand of maestro. He also isn't purely an 'epic mob' and does have other loot. Granted it all sucks, but the same can be said for Draco and the BCG. This could also be extended to Innoruuk, he has 2 useful drops and a bunch of crap - why put him on variance?

In the end I would love to see maestro's variance removed, and the variance of other mobs lessened or removed, but I don't think maestro is a particularly unique case and any changes should also include other mobs of similar difficulty / importance.

I'm not crazy about the variance on any mob if it isn't classic (Ragefire and Verina can still have variances because that's classic). But I mentioned maestro because I felt an analogy could be made to wraith, tangrin, and other epic mobs that have no variance yet have the same spawn timer.

I agree with a previous poster who basically said that if you give something variance because it's too contested, then you make it a self-fulfilling prophecy that it will be more contested. Virtually the only varianced mob that isn't killed within minutes of spawning is Master Yael, and that's because none of his loot is best in slot, and he drops no epic items.

[falkun]

It'd be easier to farm for MQ if he's not on variance than if he is. Just playing devil's advocate. He's still considered a "raid mob" even if he takes <1 group to kill, so it'd be an FTE race, even if you were the original force on his spawn (not that I'm arguing against server rules, merely what can be done with the status quo).

[Silentone]

I thought that if you can kill a mob with 1 group you can camp it, isnt this the case with tangrin? meaning you could sit on maestro and claim that mob if variance was removed. I am not talking about 15 man rule just normal camp rules.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It'd be easier to farm for MQ if he's not on variance than if he is. Just playing devil's advocate. He's still considered a "raid mob" even if he takes <1 group to kill, so it'd be an FTE race, even if you were the original force on his spawn (not that I'm arguing against server rules, merely what can be done with the status quo).

No one is farming the tangrin or wraith of a shissir for loot rights. No one is farming these mobs because they know there isn't a market for the loot of a mob that doesn't have a high chance of spawning in the morning when most players are asleep. Empirically the problem you mention didn't exist in classic when there was no variance, I'm not sure why anyone expects it to happen here. It's easier to monopolize a mob when its spawn time is uncertain, and I think this is proven clearly by the last few years of raiding on this server.

Originally Posted by Silentone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I thought that if you can kill a mob with 1 group you can camp it, isnt this the case with tangrin? meaning you could sit on maestro and claim that mob if variance was removed. I am not talking about 15 man rule just normal camp rules.

Sure. Why would this be a bad thing? When epics were first released we had to camp the tangrin for a while for one of our members' epics, because it was more contested then. It opens up the spawn to other people unless you have someone literally sitting on the spawn forever, which I think would be ridiculous even for this server's playerbase.

[Silentone]

yep, I'm saying it wont be a FTE thing like people are saying.

[Writ3r]

According to Sirken, if it is a raid mob it is FTE regardless you can't "camp" anything and even if you are the first ones clearing that "camp location" you have no claim as anyone can leapfrog you for FTE and be justified.

So if you so choose to clear first and sit on the spawn point, be prepared to have just made it easier for someone else to out FTE you as that is what the raid rules say determines the "winner" being FTE > all.

[falkun]

I didn't think players could arbitrarily decide if mobs are "raid mobs" or not, Silentone. Until we can, I have to go by the impression that Maestro is a raid mob, because that's what CSR has stated publicly and that is the modus operandi guilds will follow on this server.

Following that decision, if a group has been at Maestro's spawn since 6:23PM waiting at Maestro for him to spawn at 7:43PM and another group shows up at 7:42PM, it's an FTE race. If Maestro is no longer a "raid mob", the impending problem is non-existent, otherwise the server is back at square one.

No one farms Tangrin or Wrath of Shissar because the Enchanter epic is almost entirely combines. The two drops you are referring to are part of one such combine. The enchanter epic is almost impossible to MQ due to this fact. Its a lot easier to MQ trak guts or hand of the maestro, which are components in multi-item turn-ins.

Look, I'm all for reducing variance, but I'm not sure this would have the consequences you desire Giegue. I'm just trying to get you to view this from another angle.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one farms Tangrin or Wrath of Shissar because the Enchanter epic is almost entirely combines. The two drops you are referring to are part of one such combine. The enchanter epic is almost impossible to MQ due to this fact. Its a lot easier to MQ trak guts or hand of the maestro, which are components in multi-item turn-ins.

Sure you can't MQ it, but you can still sell the loot rights. I feel like no one does this because it just wouldn't be profitable due to the accessibility of these mobs, which is mostly because they have no variance.

I'm not sure maestro should be considered a raid mob at all, just because he's so trivial, but that's just my opinion.

Should Phinny have a variance? He can drop MQ's for several epics, all of which are fairly rare. Are we concerned that phinny not having a variance screws over casual players?

Like I said before, we can all speculate about what would happen, but in the end the only evidence we have is (a) what happens with similar mobs on this server, and (b) what happened with maestro on classic when he had no variance, and in neither case does the doomsday scenario of maestro being camped 24/7 happen.

[falkun]

Loot rights expire in 30 minutes (assuming they aren't on 7 minute corpse timers). Unless you have an enchanter with no friends who "hires" your group/guild to kill Tangrin/Wrath for him, good luck getting a buyer to fork over 200k and get to the corpse in 30 minutes. But that just screams RMT because high level enchanters all have a solid group of friends that would help them get their epic (if only to make their group better), or a guild that would do the same.

If you want to argue for Maestro to not be a raid mob, I can see that argument. But as I've already stated, I cannot act in that manner until the rest of the server is forced to also act in that manner (acting in good faith in 46+ raid zones often gets you burned on P99).

Phinny is also a 12hr respawn, 1/6th the time of Maestro's three days. There will be approximately 12 Phinny corpses between each Maestro, making his loot 12x as common. I will agree that invising down to Phinny and killing him is only slightly less risky/difficult than getting up to Maestro and killing him.