Camping Raid Mobs... gone on long enough ?!

[Bumamgar]

Originally Posted by Imsetta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is the question I would like answered. I believe that guilds are camping the end game raid mobs for the items they drop. Is this the case? Or is it for the trill of the kill. Some have said people are just killing them to keep others from killing them.

Raid guilds camp end-game mobs for two reasons:

a) Loot to gear up members to prep for the next tier of content

b) Denial of loot to the opposition to prevent them from prepping for the next tier of content

Non-raid guild players participate in raids for two reasons:

a) A chance at a random on loot to improve themselves

b) The thrill of the kill

However, even for non-raid guild players to enjoy (b) there has to be (a). People like to be able to say things like "I was there for the raid when Vox dropped three eyepatches! No, I didn't win one, but damn, that was cool"

I think you'd find some short-term but limited interest in an event to kill Vox or Naggy that resulted in no loot. Some players would tag along for the 'thrill of the kill', but not many. Especially since most p1999 players have already killed Vox and Naggy on live, I would presume.

[Imsetta]

just trying to think of a fun remedy to a problem I have already said can not be solved =P

All games are this way, the people that play the most get the most.

Sorry

Lanys T`Vyl

[guineapig]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1) We are exerting effort. Regardless of how you feel about it, it does take a certain degree of effort to track, camp, and kill the mobs on this server. It is an effort that we in IB and DA are willing to exert, and the rest of the server is not.

Ahem... [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just cause we don't 24/7 camp or track our raid mobs to kill them doesn't mean we don't count.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Imsetta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

just trying to think of a fun remedy to a problem I have already said can not be solved =P

All games are this way, the people that play the most get the most.

Sorry

Lanys T`Vyl

I think many people are having issues with the rule set because it doesn't reward those who play the most, but only those willing to leave their PCs on overnight for 3-4 days and not use their chars. AFKing at spawns is in direct contrast to "those who play the most."

Could just go FFA with no trains, that way whoever engages first, regardless of who's in there first, gets the first shot with no interference from the other guild(s). This is pretty much how it worked on my old server, and only one guild was able to maintain the sort of discipline and tactics to outwit and outplay all of the other guilds on the server (Prexus was the server and the guild was KTF).

[Spirell]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think many people are having issues with the rule set because it doesn't reward those who play the most, but only those willing to leave their PCs on overnight for 3-4 days and not use their chars. AFKing at spawns is in direct contrast to "those who play the most."

Could just go FFA with no trains, that way whoever engages first, regardless of who's in there first, gets the first shot with no interference from the other guild(s). This is pretty much how it worked on my old server, and only one guild was able to maintain the sort of discipline and tactics to outwit and outplay all of the other guilds on the server (Prexus was the server and the guild was KTF).

The devs could always just enable the raid tool, and allow a full raid's DPS to count toward the kill, that would make FFA a decent option, but with the way EQ was back in classic, a decently constructed KS group for one raid will win all the time, and the guild that put all the effort into tanking and healing would get screwed. Personally like I mentioned earlier, I think just releasing kunark will solve a lot of this, and until then let the guilds do their camping. Once there is stuff for you to do at max level, camping becomes less of an option.

[Imsetta]

I can not speak for any dev/guides, and I my self stay out of anything that I cant handle on my own. On this subject I just wanted to open up ideas.

As for the FFA let me think.

I see no problem with a FFA system if control can be kept. By control I mean people need not train others and cause any kind of death. So if people could keep control and everyone could follow an engagement rule, this could work. But I can see if the rules change this forum would change to a Flame of Guild **** stole the kill from guild ****. We would have pics of people talking and a mob dead and people complaining. And then it would still come down to guilds camping the raid mobs, and because they have there raid force all together there its still easier for them to attack something before other people can assemble and get to the mob. Or you will have 2 or 3 guilds camping a mob and all keeping full buffed and ready to aggro. This would not solve the problem would it?

Lanys T`Vyl

[PhantomRogue]

As others have stated before, the easiest way is to setup a schedule. I remember on Morrel Thule there was a 3 month waiting list to get that one mob for the cleric epic. And soon as he was up, you had to mobilize your guild and go get it. And if you missed your chance, you had to re-signup.

The largest problem with a schedule, is that its on a "Honor System." You have to trust that the community will abide by it.

No amount of content will stop it. I still remember having low level Ranger;s camped in certain safe spots in Ssra to track for XTC, Cursed, Blood/Emp. As well as having them on Dragon/Giant faction to track for Vindi/KT and the NToV dragons. And then racing to those spawn points before the other guilds found out said mob was up. It forced guilds to have HUGE number of people to ensure they had enough on at specific times of day to go kill those mobs. (I remember running NTOV and Ssra with 80 people, the definition of Zerging Content)

The worst part about Everquest is this... When you become a STRONG guild (like people said, there are what... 2 or 3 that can have the raid mobs perma camped), it ruins the end game of EQ. This cycle NEVER ends. How many times did guilds have alts camped in VexThal, Ssra, NTOV, KodTaz, Seb just to be prepared for a respawn.... No matter how much content you create, non-instanced raid bosses cause drama.

The game wasn't fun when you had 80 people on a raid, the fun was when you grouped with the same 30-50, most of whom you still talk to 10 years later.

[guineapig]

Originally Posted by Bumamgar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Raid guilds camp end-game mobs for two reasons:

a) Loot to gear up members to prep for the next tier of content

Wow, this is completely wrong in this case.
Everyone on the server knows what gear and spells will be available in the next expansion. Everyone knows that the level cap will go up by ten. I am willing to say that 50% of the gear that the current raid guilds are wearing will be replaced within the first few weeks. 90% after a month or two.

(The exception to this would be some resist gear, jewelry, mage focus items, etc.)


As far as weapons go: They will all be considered shite, used for alts or sold to new players for cheap.

[Skope]

Imsetta, you're acting as if mobs haven't been stolen recently. I've been a part of at least 2-3 plane clears where one guild decides to tag/snare another guild's mobs simply because they want the loot, with no care as to who pulled it first. One guild asks them not to do it again, other guild apologizes and it happens again 5minutes later.

Parts of the current ruleset I absolutely agree with, that being no trains and no engaging of another guild's already engaged mob, which has worked very well, and the GMs have put the hammer down and I applaud them for it. At least with this pseudo-FFA system guilds will actually race their way to the content instead of sleeping their way to it.

[PhantomRogue]

Originally Posted by Imsetta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can not speak for any dev/guides, and I my self stay out of anything that I cant handle on my own. On this subject I just wanted to open up ideas.

Heres my Idea.

Why not have the raid mobs drop 'shards.' And those shards used to open up a "fabled" instance of that zone. Drops are buffed (maybe an extra 50% of stats?), mobs are buffed/changed/etc.

And this zone has a global cooldown of... 18 days or something (figure 2.5 times the respawn of the non-instaced raid boss, to give other guilds a chance at the raid mob without competing against the guilds that 'farm' it).

Now, im not sure if the whole raid setup is active (haven't gotten that high on this server), but have the raid formed, the leader 'activate the quest' and the shards are consumed. And then you are all able to click a portal, and zone into the fabled instance.

Still gives a long time for people to compete over non-instanced mobs. And kill trash for drops. And it removes the 'perma-camping' of the raid mobs which lets new and upcoming guilds a chance to raid as well.

And, it allows guilds not to become Zerg fests and leave people perma camped onto of raid spawns, since the benefit of said raid boss is lessened. As well as giving other guilds a chance to recruit and work up strats instead of just leveling, and joining one of the top 2 guilds. Guilds can work from low and become one of the top, not just absorb into them and become larger and larger guilds.