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  #221  
Old 06-16-2010, 10:53 PM
eqdruid76 eqdruid76 is offline
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Originally Posted by Grimfan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
So, one thing I remember doing in Classic EQ, which expanded into Kunark, Luclin, PoP, etc, was dividing high end spawns on a rotation, and then taking the lower end ones and making them a mobile first to encounter FFA. So if you were to rate them on a scale, for instance Inny and CT on rotation, and the rest on a first to encounter FFA it gives you the best of both worlds I think. I didn't read through the entire thread, because I'm new and I don't know the drama, but I think asking for GM interference on things is just a little much. People should be mature enough to allow the guild with the first actual encounter on a boss to have their attempt. Isn't that what it comes down to anyway?

EDIT: I guess you would put the entire plane on Rotation? I'm not sure on the logistics of it all.
That's the problem. No one is sure on the logistics. I'm not sure any one of us can tell our asses from a hole in the ground...
  #222  
Old 06-16-2010, 10:57 PM
Phallax Phallax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicemace [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
g 15 is fully customizable macros

in wow i had mine queue for BG, click the enter battle button, then move around a couple of squares every now and then so i could AFK honour.

if you put in a kick after idle for xyz, it will just be macros that stop it from kicking in. its hell easy to do.
Yea but the thing is, how many able campers per guild has a g15 or comparable keyboard? Im gonna say not enough to keep the numbers. And as always a lag spike at the wrong time can make some bad results.
  #223  
Old 06-16-2010, 11:21 PM
Jify Jify is offline
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I thoroughly support the "Kicked after inactive for 30min" movement!
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  #224  
Old 06-16-2010, 11:28 PM
Dumesh Uhl'Belk Dumesh Uhl'Belk is offline
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Warning: Incoming wall of text with reasoned arguments and no insults or finger pointing. If you are reading this thread to enjoy the drama and munch popcorn, just skip my post.

Even the people who can be logged in nearly 24 horus a day because they work from home, or don't work, or whatever... even those people want to play the game. They want to camp an item or help PL a friend, or play an alt, or maybe just log out and do something else with their time. They don't want to park themselves and alt tab out to surf the web, or play another game, or watch TV/movies, or do housework. They do it now for one simple reason: Under the current rules, it produces results.

Most people will do whatever works that is within the letter of the rules and within their personal ability (read: available time as well as skill set).

So, if we have collectively decided that camping is a "Bad Thing" tm. Then any solution has to do more than wave an index finger and say "camping is bad, don't do it". We need to change the incentives so that camping is more painful, or just doesn't produce better results than other strategies.

AFK camping only works because the current rules grant a guaranteed first shot. So, my first proposal is to totally chuck those rules and go to a FFA with one basic rule.

First to aggro + 15 minute limit to mass engage.

Whoever can get the first aggro on the mob has 15 min to maintain aggro and have his or her guild engage. As long as the battle has begun in earnest (I'll define this as being tanked instead of kited) within 15 min of the first aggro, and there was an unbroken chain of aggro by members of that first guild through the whole 15 minutes, other guilds must back off until the first guild gets the kill or wipes. If the first guild wipes completely and the mob loses aggro, then he becomes FFA again.

If someone can successfully kite a boss for 7 or 8 minutes while his guild mobilizes, then that's cool with me, because it is definitely a skill related to gameplay in EQ. Anyway, the kiting provision is more of a catch-all that is thinking forward to some of the outdoor encounters coming in Kunark and Velious. We don't want one guy from guild X kiting Talendor around for a half an hour waiting for his guild to log in and port over. There has to be a limit. However, I think 15 min is reasonable.

The traditional complaints about FFA are Training, KSing, and excessive need for GM involvement. Obviously, training and KSing are already against server rules. They should be the only reason to involve a GM, and as per the devs, this should be a rare event. They want us to solve things by ourselves. So, how do we make sure that both real KSing and false reports to the GMs of KSing when it didn't happen are rare events. Again, the answer is in the incentives. The penalties for training/ks'ing AND for falsely reporting those charges when they aren't true should both be severe, perhaps a one month IP and account ban, or de-level to 20 or something similarly harsh.

I really believe those few measures (perhaps with a slight adjustment to the time limits) would be enough to ensure equal opportunity with limited camping. The camping becomes much less attractive when the first crack is not guaranteed just for showing up first and when they campers' eyeballs have to be on the screen. I would also strongly favor reducing the variance to +0 to 12 hours. This would still help the spawns rotate around the clock. However, with a more narrow window, there will be less of a pressure to maintain a constant presence in a zone for days... maybe just a few hours. Again, I cannot stress enough how different THIS form of camping would be.... first to aggro and fully engage within 15 min is a very different standard. The people doing the camping actually have to be capable of completing the kill or at least holding on while the rest of their guildmates mobilize, and they will actually have to be at the keyboard with eyeballs on screen, or else someone else who is waiting on the spawn might get first aggro.

However, as much as I want that to happen, I am afraid it might not. The devs might not want to get that harsh with the penalties in the first week or two of this system being in place. That deterrent is vital to this plan. After 3 or 4 people get deleveled or IP banned for a month, people will stop KSing and will be too afraid to level unfounded accusations at others. After that, I believe there would be very few calls to GMs. This satisfies their requirements. As for the players, we will all get a shot. If we can get a force to the mob when it's up or about to spawn and get the first aggro, we can all get a chance to kill it. Then the game is all about keeping solid intel on when targets were killed, when they are due, scouting, picking your battles, mobilizing to your chosen target, and having a good pull team that can get first aggro (or back off when they lose so they don't get banned).

I have a second proposal that is just a tweak of the rules we have, but I don't care for it anywhere near as much. If my first proposal goes up in flames or is ignored, I may post the second one.
Last edited by Dumesh Uhl'Belk; 06-17-2010 at 01:26 AM.. Reason: fixed a spelling error
  #225  
Old 06-16-2010, 11:41 PM
Derpus Derpus is offline
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poppycock!
/pops monocle
  #226  
Old 06-16-2010, 11:57 PM
Taluvill Taluvill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phallax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Yea but the thing is, how many able campers per guild has a g15 or comparable keyboard? Im gonna say not enough to keep the numbers. And as always a lag spike at the wrong time can make some bad results.
You dont HAVE to have a g15, it just makes it easier. We had programs that can do anything for you if you can write the code. We used them for Darkfall to insta loot pvp corpses.

The macro problem would be rampant.
  #227  
Old 06-17-2010, 12:12 AM
Pyrocat Pyrocat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumesh Uhl'Belk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First to aggro + 15 minute limit to mass engage.

Whoever can get the first aggro on the mob has 15 min to maintain aggro and have his or her guild engage. As long as the battle has begun in earnest (I'll define this as being tanked instead of kited) within 15 min of the first aggro, and their was an unbroken chain of aggro by members of that first guild through the whole 15 minutes, other guilds must back off until the first guild gets the kill or wipes. If the first guild wipes completely and the mob loses aggro, then he becomes FFA again.

If someone can successfully kite a boss for 7 or 8 minutes while his guild mobilizes, then that's cool with me, because it is definitely a skill related to gameplay in EQ. Anyway, the kiting provision is more of a catch-all that is thinking forward to some of the outdoor encounters coming in Kunark and Velious. We don't want one guy from guild X kiting Talendor around for a half an hour waiting for his guild to log in and port over. There has to be a limit. However, I think 15 min is reasonable.
Holy fuck, I think you might have something there.
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  #228  
Old 06-17-2010, 12:13 AM
Aadill Aadill is offline
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With some tweaking, Suicide Kings might be what we need for a fair yet competitive ruleset.

The suggestions that have come about in this thread are at least providing multiple paths to help us take a step in the right direction!
  #229  
Old 06-17-2010, 12:22 AM
Qaedain Qaedain is offline
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Dumesh's answer is the most reasonable proposed thus far.
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  #230  
Old 06-17-2010, 12:33 AM
Reiker Reiker is offline
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Fuck, Alawen Everywhere is the new Hasbinbad.
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