Forced Rotation Isn't Classic

[Kraal]

You miss the point of it all Soulfighter, let's give you some scenarios.

Let's say your guild works tirelessly getting diamonds for resist gear, leveling the much needed classes, and finally breaking into a new zone, and after some trial and error you manage to drop a raid mob. By the time you're breaking the guilds that are lagging behind are complaining and rushing along because they too want some of that planar action.

You get a scenario where your guild is putting in effort but is getting fucked out of that effort because zerg guilds of 80+ people are bind rushing a mob to kill it, it creates a lackluster group of end gamers who drudge along slowly who would rather have things handed to them than actually earn it.

My view is if you want that raid mob bad enough you'll park a ranger there and check periodically if it is up, and you go by the old rule of first come, first serve. There should be no magical list of order to maintain civility because that just slows progression even further by creating a rut in terms of guild accessibility to end game content.

To be honest it's not a PVP only mentality to compete with other guilds, PVE servers had their fair share of uber guilds wrecking raid mobs as soon as the spawned until they farmed nearly everything possible then moved on to harder content.

This is classic, classic was all about assembling your raid forces at a moments notice to tag a mob before another guild prepared, some servers like Brell tried to implement some faggy "Rules of order" and that totally bit them in the ass in the end

I'd say if your guild is crying about how they're not getting their "fair share" of Naggy drops and try to change the whole dynamics of first come,first serve while they zerg themselves down 2-3 levels in failed attempts.

Then expect later on for high profile mobs to be wielding glowing black swords and haste weapons

[Soulfighter]

Originally Posted by Kraal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My view is if you want that raid mob bad enough you'll park a ranger there and check periodically if it is up, and you go by the old rule of first come, first serve.

When a mob die everyone know when exactly when it'll pop again. Then the 'first come first serve rule' does not fit IB mentaly (and i understand it), they are more like rush and engage right when mob pop even if there are already people, which is how things are on pvp servers.

i can't really answer anything else in your post since it's just some basic trolling

"guilds that are lagging behind are complaining" "while they zerg themselves down 2-3 levels in failed attempts." " your guild is crying about how they're not getting their "fair share" of Naggy "

[Wenai]

Here. I will lay it all out on the table...

Originally Posted by Kraal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My view is if you want that raid mob bad enough you'll park a ranger there and check periodically if it is up, and you go by the old rule of first come, first serve. There should be no magical list of order to maintain civility because that just slows progression even further by creating a rut in terms of guild accessibility to end game content.

True.

To be honest it's not a PVP only mentality to compete with other guilds, PVE servers had their fair share of uber guilds wrecking raid mobs as soon as the spawned until they farmed nearly everything possible then moved on to harder content.

I have no problem with competition. But I will detail below where the PVP mentality came into play.

This is classic, classic was all about assembling your raid forces at a moments notice

True. But this isn't what was happening here.

I'd say if your guild is crying about how they're not getting their "fair share" of Naggy drops and try to change the whole dynamics of first come,first serve while they zerg themselves down 2-3 levels in failed attempts.

There was no one crying about not getting their fair share of Naggy. This is not the issue at all. Let me break it down for you exactly how everything played out.

1. IB was the first guild to peak and basically was killing all the raid targets with absolutely no competition.

IB - Happy
Trans - Sad

2. Server got DDoS'd which caused us to be down for a few days. Naggy was supposed to spawn in those few days which meant that as soon as the server came up, Naggy was spawned and ready. Trans was the first guild there and attempted Naggy and failed initially. IB showed up and wanted to "leapfrog" them because they were ready to go and Trans had not gotten rebuffed yet. I told them that Trans was there first and had every right to give it another shot. After the attempt that I watched there was still no IB in the zone.

IB - Sad
Trans - Happy

3. My memory is a little foggy here so I can't remember if Trans got the next Naggy or if IB did. Basically the next occurrence I remember was Trans showing up two hours early for Nagafen to claim the spawn. They were the first raid force there and had every right to get the first attempt.

IB - Sad
Trans - Happy

4. IB decides that they want to play this game as well. They showed up five hours early to kill FGs and claim the camp. Transcendence showed up in the zone and I asked them to move along as IB was there before just like in the past incident. IB gets the right to do Nagafen first.

IB - Happy
Trans - Sad

5. Trans decided to up the ante. Trans shows up eight hours early for Vox so that they can claim the spawn. This is starting to get a little bit ridiculous and became clear that the guilds just couldn't get along. Trans got to claim Vox.

IB - Sad
Trans - Happy

6. Trans decides to put an exclamation mark on the current system. They showed up fourteen hours early for Nagafen's spawn. IB is completely incensed and decide "as a guild," as I have been told over and over, that the system they have been following for weeks should no longer apply to them. IB passed Trans (who have been ready to go for 14 hours) and decides they were going to sit in Nagafen's lair 20 minutes before he is supposed to spawn. This is when the rotation went into place..

.................

So let's go through these instances that happened over these weeks. I talked to Otto individually. I talked to Allizia individually. I talked to Otto and Allizia together. Aeolwind talked to them together. We tried our best to help you guys sort out a solution. We tried our best to get you guys to work out a compromise.

Contrary to popular belief, Trans never came to me and suggested a rotation. Contrary to the tin foil hat perched atop your head, Trans never made the rules. It is actually pretty hilarious. Is IB so soon to forget all the people claiming we were feeding IB all this info and favortism? Remember how much that was bullshit and you guys knew the truth that we weren't doing you guys any favors? This is the same fucking bullshit. We aren't doing anything for Trans.

I will tell you this though. If Trans wanted a rotation, I guess they lucked out because it certainly is the most fair way to handle things. Your guys' suggestion of "Whoever does the most damage gets the kill," is not a system that we are going to operate under. Consider raid targets part of the PNP rules is basically what we asked you guys. Don't kill steal, don't camp steal and just make ethical decisions. While Trans is at fault as well by taking the system we were using to the extreme, I feel that IB's method for solving this issue of: Ignore it and just let us both engage the raid mob is completely unethical. This is a PVP mentality and has no place on this server. When a guild is there preparing for a raid. Leave them alone, move on to another target or do something else.

Every server had different guidelines for following raids. Some servers (apparently) were allowed to just zerg raid targets and whoever got the kill got it. Some servers operated under a guild-enforced rotation. Others just respected each other and let guilds who got there first take the target. Is a GM-enforced rotation where we wanted to go? Hell no. We wanted nothing to do with this garbage but you guys left us no choice. Rotation was the most fair way to handle it. Because guess what... IB still gets raid targets. And if you want the truth, there is no way that IB was going to win under the system we were operating under before. You wanted the system changed... you got it changed. Congrats.

Between school, keeping my own play characters at least somewhere with the pace of the rest of the server, and baby sitting you guys... I don't have time to do ANY fixes. Every day I am dealing with talking to someone from one of the two guilds over something. Seriously guys, I do this as a donation of my time. The last thing I want to do with my volunteer time is sort out these guild issues.

[Pyrocat]

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Every server had different guidelines for following raids. Some servers (apparently) were allowed to just zerg raid targets and whoever got the kill got it. Some servers operated under a guild-enforced rotation. Others just respected each other and let guilds who got there first take the target.

My point is, all of the situations you listed are classic, but GM enforced rotation NEVER happened on live.

The most fair way to handle it would be to ignore the situation entirely from a GMs perspective. Yes it will result in leapfrogging, yes it will possibly result in killstealing, but it's a preferably alternatively to 4 guilds each waiting 1 month for their naggy kill and their CT kill, which WILL happen if we folllow classic timeline for kunark coming out in one year.

[Wenai]

Originally Posted by Pyrocat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My point is, all of the situations you listed are classic, but GM enforced rotation NEVER happened on live.

The most fair way to handle it would be to ignore the situation entirely from a GMs perspective. Yes it will result in leapfrogging, yes it will possibly result in killstealing, but it's a preferably alternatively to 4 guilds each waiting 1 month for their naggy kill and their CT kill, which WILL happen if we folllow classic timeline for kunark coming out in one year.

Then I suggest Otto and Allizia start hammering out an alternative method.

[Allizia]

Originally Posted by Pyrocat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The most fair way to handle it would be to ignore the situation entirely from a GMs perspective. Yes it will result in leapfrogging, yes it will possibly result in killstealing, but it's a preferably alternatively to 4 guilds each waiting 1 month for their naggy kill and their CT kill, which WILL happen if we folllow classic timeline for kunark coming out in one year.

I come from both a PVP server and Township Rebellion on live, I understand where you guys are coming from and what you are trying to do. We used to whipe the server clean daily of anything that resembled a raid mob for no other reason than to prevent any other guild from getting remotely close to us (loot rotted about 90% of the time). We were extremely effective at this, and the GM's eventually got tired of it and forced rotations on us (Yes, GM forced rotations on live).

This is not live though, these are not new encounters and this is a nostalgic representation of a 10 year old game. Is 4 guilds getting 1 Naggy a month any better then 1 guild getting 4 Naggy and the others get nothing? No. There are 300+ people on this server, and they will eventually want to experience the raid side of things.

I fully embrace and expect other guilds to get into the rotation, and I will support it and even offer advice if needed. For me, killing Naggy at this point is about as exciting as heating up a pizza, but I enjoy watching others experience it for the first time. The people on this server came to relive or experience(for the first time) classic, including the raids, not to watch IB/Trans kill Naggy for the 36th time.

[Rogean]

Originally Posted by Allizia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For me, killing Naggy at this point is about as exciting as heating up a pizza.

I dunno about you, but heating up a pizza is pretty damn exciting. Especially if its Digiorno... mmm...

[Finawin]

Originally Posted by Allizia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I come from both a PVP server and Township Rebellion on live, I understand where you guys are coming from and what you are trying to do. We used to whipe the server clean daily of anything that resembled a raid mob for no other reason than to prevent any other guild from getting remotely close to us (loot rotted about 90% of the time). We were extremely effective at this, and the GM's eventually got tired of it and forced rotations on us (Yes, GM forced rotations on live).

This is not live though, these are not new encounters and this is a nostalgic representation of a 10 year old game. Is 4 guilds getting 1 Naggy a month any better then 1 guild getting 4 Naggy and the others get nothing? No. There are 300+ people on this server, and they will eventually want to experience the raid side of things.

I fully embrace and expect other guilds to get into the rotation, and I will support it and even offer advice if needed. For me, killing Naggy at this point is about as exciting as heating up a pizza, but I enjoy watching others experience it for the first time. The people on this server came to relive or experience(for the first time) classic, including the raids, not to watch IB/Trans kill Naggy for the 36th time.

/thread

[Reiker]

Originally Posted by Wenai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Quote:This is classic, classic was all about assembling your raid forces at a moments notice

True. But this isn't what was happening here.

Are you kidding me? You obviously don't even know what's going on. Inglourious Basterds have been the first in Plane of Fear every single time. We've cleared the plane multiple times while Transcendence has barely killed any mobs in there. Immediately after the patch came up we called and texted our members and got 20+ people online at noon on a tuesday. We fucking put in the work for this Plane while Transcendence was still camping manastones in Guk. But now they get an equal shot for being scrubs?

Are you going to explain why you're implementing biased, NON-CLASSIC rules at your whim? I've been asking for an explanation for weeks but you can't come up with any besides "stop QQing."

This is really fucking unprofessional and you really need to go, man. If you worked 10x harder than some scrub guild and then they came along and GMs gave them anything they wanted you'd be pissed too so take you WoW terminology and your WoW "everyone should get a shot!" mentality, pack your bags, and take it back to WoW. This is EverQuest. There is supposed to be competition. You just don't fit here.

[Wenai]

Originally Posted by Reiker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you kidding me? You obviously don't even know what's going on. Inglourious Basterds have been the first in Plane of Fear every single time. We've cleared the plane multiple times while Transcendence has barely killed any mobs in there. Immediately after the patch came up we called and texted our members and got 20+ people online at noon on a tuesday. We fucking put in the work for this Plane while Transcendence was still camping manastones in Guk. But now they get an equal shot for being scrubs?

Are you going to explain why you're implementing biased, NON-CLASSIC rules at your whim? I've been asking for an explanation for weeks but you can't come up with any besides "stop QQing."

This is really fucking unprofessional and you really need to go, man. If you worked 10x harder than some scrub guild and then they came along and GMs gave them anything they wanted you'd be pissed too so take you WoW terminology and your WoW "everyone should get a shot!" mentality, pack your bags, and take it back to WoW. This is EverQuest. There is supposed to be competition. You just don't fit here.

I really don't understand what you are going for.

I talked to you as a guild.

Aeolwind talked to you one on one.

Nilbog talked to you one on one.

You were given the same answer every single time. As soon as Secrets logs on the server you start trying to send tells to Secrets about this situation. Secrets has not been involved in this situation at all yet you were trying to get Secrets to somehow overturn something? You are really grasping at straws man.

You have been given the same answer every... single... time.

Oh it is actually funny btw. I have never played WoW.