Addressing the Economy (mudflation)

[Gadwen]

Originally Posted by Ezrick [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It was called "The Great Turkey Day Massacre".

There were several games before EQ of course, not even including MUDS. One was called "The Realm". It still exists today.


It was actually the only online game released by Sierra Online. It was quite successful and while the graphics were a bit hokey, and PvP rife with cheating (cheaters would intercept packets giving away the opponents next move in the turned-based combat) it did entertain us quite admirably for several year before EQ sucked us all in.

What happened was that a new version was planned, everyone was promised that all items and gold would carry over into the new game. They promised the players this six months in advance and EVERYONE hoarded gold waiting on release of The Realm 2.0.

The economy, on release, was a disaster. Combat item decay was part of the money sink, but it was stupidly easy with the 50k gold you had sitting in you chest at the house. EVERYTHING about the economy sucked. The smallest magic items sold for incredible amounts (sound familiar?).

So on Thanksgiving in 1997 they simply took it. ALL of it. Any items that were overpowered in the new version, gone, every character no matter their level was given 10gp. That was IT.

Of course there was great gnashing teeth. Many of us, for weeks, ran around in armor that was literally falling off, because we couldn't afford to fix it. People WAILED.

But in the end, it worked. It was a much healthier game in the end.

Ezzy


WTS a 4 CHANT WRATH! (because real men use adamantium mauls)

In the example here it made sense, they injected way too much money into a brand new game, they set up a flawed system by letting all that wealth carry over so they had to correct it.

Not really the same situation here on P99, assuming that people haven't duped or RMTed all their plat, it was earned legitimately through game play or interaction with other players as it was intended. The fact that there is a ton of plat floating around isn't a mistake. Resetting peoples banks would just kill this server, not simply from people leaving because of it, but people would never have faith that what they were doing was "permanent" and would always have that fear in the back of their minds that they were going to log in and find that what they spent 6-12 months working for was gone.

[webrunner5]

One thing I see, and I am guilty of it also, is just selling items to a vender instead of selling in Tunnel. Flayed Skin, Melee Boots like Deepwater, Colbalt, etc. Hurts the lower people. Not sure what the answer is. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Hawala]

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One thing I see, and I am guilty of it also, is just selling items to a vender instead of selling in Tunnel. Flayed Skin, Melee Boots like Deepwater, Colbalt, etc. Hurts the lower people. Not sure what the answer is. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ironically, the upper bound of the gauntlets is roughly equal to what the vendors buy for. Economics suggests that the lower bound would be equal to what the vendors sell for, if the item were rare. So, this suggests these items are so common it's more of a hindrance to the seller than any potential buyers. This means the spread of 100p isn't typically worth the wait to find a buyer.

In other words, I don't think you're doing any harm.

[Hawala]

Another possible remedy would be to make Bubar or some NPC vendor actually give non-stupid prices for rare items.

Farmers would be able to sell a FBSS for 5k or something instantly, then have the NPC jack the price up to like 20k or something to buyers.

This could quickly suck out a ton of plat.

Obviously resellers with lower spreads would still be profitable.

[webrunner5]

I have never understood why a NPC Vender charges so much for some items. Like a Fine Steel 2 hander. it is like 65 plat or more. You can't get over 5 plat for it on turn in to the NPC. And would be lucky to sell it for 2 Gold to a Noob with no money as an example.

I am sure we have all seen some crazy price like 2,200 plat for a item that sells in the tunnel for say 50 plat. Goofy. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Then at times you can find like a spell that sells for 2k for 20 plat??

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Hawala [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Another possible remedy would be to make Bubar or some NPC vendor actually give non-stupid prices for rare items.

I like that idea a lot, for people who don't want to sit around in EC and spend hours vendoring off items its a nice alternative [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Ezrick]

Originally Posted by Gadwen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the example here it made sense, they injected way too much money into a brand new game, they set up a flawed system by letting all that wealth carry over so they had to correct it.

Not really the same situation here on P99, assuming that people haven't duped or RMTed all their plat, it was earned legitimately through game play or interaction with other players as it was intended. The fact that there is a ton of plat floating around isn't a mistake. Resetting peoples banks would just kill this server, not simply from people leaving because of it, but people would never have faith that what they were doing was "permanent" and would always have that fear in the back of their minds that they were going to log in and find that what they spent 6-12 months working for was gone.

Not as much sense as you may think. Remember the armor/weapon decay money sink? Well for higher level equipment it took correspondingly more gold to repair. While the change was unnoticeable to a level 1 character, it hit the higher levels HARD. If your gear decayed 100%, it poofed!

What happened was every time you went out hunting with your higher level, you had to go home, (no bank, just a locked chest in your house) put your good gear in chest, and go out to a newbie zone for an hour or more killing faeries naked to earn enough money to repair your gear. It was quite comical [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Eventually, of course, the economy did recover, but those first few weeks after the massacre were sure interesting.

Of course after the massacre there was "Black Tuesday". That's the day the entire server staff came to work to find Vivendi had bought out Sierra-on-line and laid off the entire staff as they came in the building.

Yes, they laid off the entire staff of a live pay-for-play game. Seens Vivendi had no idea the game even existed and was just interested in the intellectual property of things like Kings Quest etc. I was a guide and we quite literally ran the server for about ten days before they straightened it all out.

Ezzy

[citizen1080]

Originally Posted by Hawala [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm working on my PhD in Economics.

There are several issues:

1) Currency is not controlled.
2) There's no interest rate to offset inflation.
3) There's no borrowing/lending, due to no collateral.
4) Merchants buy the same item even if they have a billion of it, whereas you'd think their marginal utility would be close to zero or even negative for that last item. People should have to find a merchant who doesn't have very many of that item you're trying to sell.
5) Mobs DROP currency, it should only be attainable through banks, or merchants.
6) Mobs DROP gear, although this isn't such a huge problem, because it takes work to farm gear, just like it takes work to make gear IRL.
7) Tradeskills generally produce inferior gear to camping.
8) Certain items are simply unfarmable now, this doesn't usually happen in real life. Their prices skyrocket.
9) Last but not least, patches are being anticipated, people know what will happen and how items are going to change.

Not saying you are wrong...as I think I got a C- in Econ...but we have most this IRL and our economy is still in the shitter =)

[liveitup1216]

Originally Posted by Gadwen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

... but people would never have faith that what they were doing was "permanent" and would always have that fear in the back of their minds that they were going to log in and find that what they spent 6-12 months working for was gone.

One wipe in 3+ years of server life would do no such thing. If the server was a year old I'd support this argument still. After all the duping/rmt/stagnation, this argument is no longer valid.

[vulzol]

Originally Posted by Gaffin Deeppockets [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure if you know this or not. This happened in classic and playerauctions was also huge on selling accounts for RMT. People act like this shit is new. Its not.

Guises are a legendary item. Sucks there is alot of people banned with them and they are getting more slim to see around. They shouldnt become a common item.

My guess is you own one?

@500k, I doubt you'll see everybody with one. Considering the lost accounts with guises then buying a guise from a vendor for an outragoeus amount would likely just maintain the numbers.