Raiding on P1999

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Bubbles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This thread is completely pointless....

without tags.

Agreed.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Marmo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you think the top raiding guilds have no life for their tracking, tweeting and camping out at targets, or that this requires an unreasonable amount of time then you're just ignorant.

Originally Posted by Kruel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There will be no chaos.. If you guys can get 3-4 guilds on the same batphone and get 30-40 players online within 3-4 minutes and engage before tmo or tr and live - i sir would applaud you.

These two versions of "top end guild raid devotion" conflict. On one hand, Marmo claims this takes a reasonable amount of time and does not, in fact, require one to have "no life". Kruel claims this involves getting 30-40 players online within 3-4 minutes, implying that we have to stay within 3-4 minutes of our computers (granted, not actually online in P99, so technically not poopsocking) at all times and log in once the tweet/text comes in.

So which is it?

Yeah, you're not poopsocking, but I don't see how your raid force can stay within 3-4 minutes of their computers at all times and still have lives, so to speak. If I want to go for a walk outside on a nice day, can I only walk around my apartment with my cell phone in case I get a raid text? If I want to go out with friends, do I have to bring my laptop and slap it down on the bar table if I get a text? Can I only drive my vehicle on county roads so I can pull off to the side of the road and whip out my laptop on a moment's notice? Can I plan family meals longer than 2 minutes so I don't have to leap out from my seat during a meal if I get a text?

That's why this is ridiculous for the other 95% of the server. Call it lack of devotion to pixels or whatever you want, but it's a damn shame that raid content is being cut off for the rest of us because some people are just Taking Things Way Too Seriously, and are chaining themselves to a computer with a 3-4 minute tether.

[Lazortag]

Warning: this post is long. (edit: so long, in fact, that I think it's lagging up the site.)

I committed to not responding to this thread again because I couldn't promise myself that I'd be civil, since I was taking what some people said in this thread a little too seriously, but I took a deep breath, came to the realization that this is just a game, and now I'm calm. Given how long this post is you'll probably still think I take this too seriously, which might be true, whatever. First, I'm sorry for insinuating that people in TR/TMO have no lives. I'm friendly with probably 99% of the members of both guilds so I basically insulted people who are normally nice to me, which is mean. It's also a little silly coming from me because as a lot of you know, I play this game constantly - even if I leave it on while studying or doing something else unproductive, I've still racked up a /played time so high that I'm ashamed to even post it, so it's hypocritical of me to say that others (who probably play less than me) have no lives outside of EQ.

See? Even I can admit that I'm fallible.

As for the raid scene, I've suggested a lot of fixes that I thought were fair for everyone, because I like consensus-building and I really do care about accommodating everyone and not just serving my own interests. I still think some kind of weighted rotation would be fairest, but a big objection is that it wouldn't feel competitive and it wouldn't necessarily give guilds the share of mobs that they deserve. I'll say right away that any rotation that allows every guild an exactly equal number of mobs is a bad idea, just like any rotation that lets guilds get mobs that they haven't even proven they can kill yet. It's not even worth getting into the reasons why it wouldn't be fair, the fact is that it would never get any support from the top guilds, and any solution has to take into account what all guilds think, not just the casual ones.

Since no rotation that isn't absurdly complicated will have the competitive feel that many guilds enjoy, I don't think we're ready for a rotation just yet. So let's try and think of solutions that would feel competitive but aren't too complex (and hopefully aren't too hard on the GM's), yet still make raiding accessible, fun, and fair. For one, I think that server repops on patch days are awesome and need to happen more consistently. Like, 100% of content-related patches should have server repops - they are great for both casual guilds and hardcore guilds, they promote competition, but most of all they're fun, and I don't see why we don't have them more often if everyone likes them and they're classic. If Rogean likes having a variance on server repops (which I don't think existed at this point in the classic timeline, but I wouldn't know), then that's cool too even if I don't prefer it, so long as we know that everything is gonna pop soon. I'm sorry if any of this sounds ungrateful - trust me, I'm glad that repops happen at all when they used to never happen, but I'm just making a suggestion that I think has a lot of support.

Secondly, the variance. I think we should first stipulate whether any variance existed at all and if it did, how long it was. I've heard people say that a small variance (like 6-12 hours) existed for most raid mobs and I've heard others say that no variance existed. Regardless, I think our server is unique in that it has a large number of european players who would be screwed out of content if everything spawned when they weren't as likely to be awake, which would happen if the variance was removed entirely. But I still think the windows should be shortened, I'd say to 12 or 24 hours or something like that, as opposed to 96 hours which is the norm for most raid mobs. There's enough raid content on this server that it wouldn't cause a huge clusterfuck (when before kunark it might have) - sure, people will camp out at trak and even be more likely to sock him because the cost of keeping your guild online at the spawn point of such a valuable mob isn't as high as before, but the worst that that would happen is that other guilds would be deterred from attempting trak and instead go for other targets, which they'd be satisfied with.

Many people (including some in the top guilds) say that the windows are unreasonably long and that they need to be shortened, so I think everyone would be okay with it. This would hugely boost competition on this server (something the top guilds want more of), but still give TR/TMO proportionally more mobs and more free time. Whether some people can manage the variance as it currently is doesn't change the fact that it's too long for classic, and that most casual players will attest that they just don't have the time to compete with windows that big. Again, I'm not saying that you have to be unemployed to track mobs with variance on this server, and I'm sorry again for suggesting that people who commit to tracking raid mobs have no lives outside of eq. But let's also stop with this narrative that people who aren't willing to track are "noobs" or that they "don't work hard enough" or that their guilds have poor leadership. I realize people said those things after they were provoked, but let's all just be nice to each other (again, I'm as guilty as anyone of being hostile, but it does no good to fling insults at each other).

We should also probably get rid of the "first to 15" rule, since it's kind of archaic, but I've never actually been involved in a situation where it was invoked so I can't definitively say whether it's a bad rule or not.

(edited out some grammar mistakes)

[mitic]

rotation on bosses was the reason why soe started to make instanced zones and that was the very reason why we all stoped playing on live.

think about it for a moment

[Kope]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

rotation on bosses was the reason why soe started to make instanced zones and that was the very reason why we all stoped playing on live.

think about it for a moment

I thought it was to give everyone a shot on completing the game for themselves because not everyone could with a minimum amount of "raid bosses" needed.

Basically the precursor to poopsocking is why they did it (or so i've been told from a few different sources).

[Vohl]

I actually appreciated the Ragefire solution -- collect rare drops in a (then) high-end zone to spawn a bottleneck mob. The same mechanism was used later to trigger bosses in later releases.

This avoids instancing, incents players to get into dungeon groups, and gets rid of camping the named (and the nastiness involved).

While it isn't authentic to the original Kunark content, I think it is very much in the spirit of original EQ to make a difficult quest with rare items result in a raid encounter, such as a dragon fight.

[Zenlina]

The current design is fine imo, sure tmo/tr have been getting the majority of the mobs, but i have also seen bda/taken pushing for bosses too and getting them on afew occasions. Sure the newer guilds entering the raid scene might run into afew hiccips with both TR/TMO (this is inevitable because both guilds have been adapting to the rules and raiding bosses longer) but they still able to take away with some wins.

This i applaud them because it shows that they are taking action and not just blowing air as i have seen alot in this thread doing. It all comes down to adapting to how things are done at the moment, all the info has already been put in this forum how its done, just comes down to if people are willing or not to do them. Not try to change things to cater better to what you want.

This is not live, rotation and removal of variance will not change anything except cause more headaches for the GM, thats why they put this system in, its to cater to the dev/gm needs not ours and its there right since they run the server.

[Duie]

Originally Posted by Mcbard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Good post except the issue the devs brought to light and that you posted is already being worked on.

The issue and resolution everyone else in the thread seems set on enacting is rotating mobs between not the "top guilds" but "anybody capable of killing a mob" so that the 500 level 60s on the server all get a chance at raid mobs because they don't want to log their characters out prepared and track. They wish to have their cake and eat it too.. which I don't recall being classic.

That comes off kind of dickish, but seriously this is what it seems to boil down to from everything I've been reading on this subject in the last couple of weeks. "Man we really want to kill dragons, but on this server you have to track them during their windows and have your force buffed, logged out, and prepared to do so in order to kill anything, and we don't want to do that since it's not what we did in classic!"

I don't get it. =\

Edit: And it should be known that I personally, as well as most everyone I'm sure is all for a solution that makes everything as classic as possible, however we need to keep a few things in mind, imo:
1. Variances were put in for a reason
2. The solution should affect all people equally
3. It should be easier for the GM's not more difficult
4. At the end of the day there are going to be 500 people standing around a pie and wanting a slice, but there just isn't enough to go around.

If you were to put in a rotation system w/ progression in mind(IE you gotta be able to clear all of sky before you can go to kunark ECT) the majority of those 500 people would not be in your way. you could do this as a step that guilds would have to complete in order to advance .

EPICS- make no mistake about it, In order for a rotation system to work, the top guilds would (and rightfully so) want first crack at these Epics. So make up your mind right now if you are willing to let one of these guys on your raid for the epic drops.if not then you guys can forget about seeing CT ,VS or Inny for a long time.

For the top guilds- if a rotation means we stay out of your playground , Are you willing to stay out of ours unless it is your turn at CT/INNY ect? You would Effectivly be able to complete the epics w/o the bullshit faster by compromizing on this, Keep in mind that the old loot goes to the mini bosses soon as epics are put in place.

Vox NAggy- With the lvl 52 restriction i feal these could be comunity events hosted By the top two w/ the epic pieces going to them. other loot could be Randomed.

VArrence. None of the above works if noone can plan when the boss mobs are going to be up. Guilds will be given a set amount of time from pop to either pass to next guild in line or Forfiet to FFA on said Boss.

compition- See REd99 or start requiring all the toons that are socking to stay logged on and at the pc NOT AFK for the 48 hour +/- sockfest . lets see who can stay up the longest.

[SwordNboard]

Originally Posted by Vohl [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I actually appreciated the Ragefire solution -- collect rare drops in a (then) high-end zone to spawn a bottleneck mob. The same mechanism was used later to trigger bosses in later releases.

This avoids instancing, incents players to get into dungeon groups, and gets rid of camping the named (and the nastiness involved).

While it isn't authentic to the original Kunark content, I think it is very much in the spirit of original EQ to make a difficult quest with rare items result in a raid encounter, such as a dragon fight.

I actually sort of like this.

[Kika Maslyaka]

I am curious:

-with lev 52 restriction on dragons, how do 53+ people suppose to LEGALLY obtain their epic drops??? Like seriously, WTF Verant was thinking?