WTF is going on.

[nilbog]

And you wonder why GMs don't respond to these threads? Some of them take like 30 minutes to read.. and half of it is lies or conjecture based on half-rumored evidence. I know its easy to jump to your own truths.. but there is seriously some funny shit in here.

I saw GM typed way too many times not to restate the obvious.

-We do not answer to you.
-Player punishments are none of your concern.
-If you petition about someone else's punishment, don't expect us to respond.

It is fucking hilarious for anyone to believe we care enough about in-game controversy to be corrupt... LOL. Stop and think for a second.. about how we *really* do not care, and you will have arrived at the truth.

I thought I originally favored IB, then it switched to Transcendance, or is it back to IB now? Will Divinity get a shot at the corruption title? I don't read enough of the soap opera digest to keep track of who I'm supposed to be corrupt with.

You have created your own drama.. and you can't deal with each other. It's very funny from my perspective.

I know its been that way since the dawn of EQ. Players get upset and look to the sky and say.. "oh no, I can't fathom not knowing the reasoning behind everything, let us blame the gods."

I read all the posts up to this point, and some of it is right. Most of it is wrong. There's nothing we can say that will stop you from continuing on, so I just wanted to throw some truth on this reality tv daytime judge show drama bullshit.

As long as there are no non-consensual personal attacks, or ANY flaming of the staff, please continue.

[karsten]

i think you guys are angry for a different reason and it just happens to be manifesting itself in this manner. You say that you're angry about raid targets, but what you're really angry about is that you have a shitty guild that lacks leadership and cohesion, and you're somehow powerless to deal with the internal areas so you choose to lash out externally.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by karsten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

we went in there to fuck with you guys, and then when ct popped we went back in to call a 30 min on you and put pressure on you so that your feeble minded raid leader would crack under it and eat the first death touch, causing ct to be pulled onto your inferior raid force, going straight after all of the casters because they don't know how to control their aggro, and you wiped to what allizia once referred to as "the easiest raid boss in classic"

Burn baby, burn.

[President]

How has nobody mentioned that Transcendence is apparently accusing IB of knowing that something is about to spawn BEFORE IT SPAWNS. Seriously, ShowEQ doesn't go "hey, this mob is gonna spawn in 20 minutes, head on over!". The ONLY POSSIBLE WAY they could POSSIBLY know a mob was ABOUT TO SPAWN BEFORE IT SPAWNED was if they knew exactly when it died and it was at the end of the +/- spawn window.

GM's can't tell exact spawn time, ShowEQ can't tell exact spawn time, you are literally accusing IB of something IMPOSSIBLE

[Zexa]

Originally Posted by President [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How has nobody mentioned that Transcendence is apparently accusing IB of knowing that something is about to spawn BEFORE IT SPAWNS. Seriously, ShowEQ doesn't go "hey, this mob is gonna spawn in 20 minutes, head on over!". The ONLY POSSIBLE WAY they could POSSIBLY know a mob was ABOUT TO SPAWN BEFORE IT SPAWNED was if they knew exactly when it died and it was at the end of the +/- spawn window.

GM's can't tell exact spawn time, ShowEQ can't tell exact spawn time, you are literally accusing IB of something IMPOSSIBLE

Maybe we're just that good, jerk! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Rogean]

Originally Posted by President [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

GM's can't tell exact spawn time

We can.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We can.

You're just mean. :P

[Atennu]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We can.

Incoming shitstorm

[Wenai]

Originally Posted by Maximus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the words of the great Rogean:

"Despite your belief you do not know all the facts. STOP Making judgement calls on half-assed information."

I think im getting good at this quote thing.
You have become better at trolling (1).

I think you should read that quote yourself there bro. You are sitting here complaining about shit that you don't even know anything about. Your camp seems to have a severe lack of understanding of how the system works.

I have a few comments to make but I am really not going to respond again, so I start off with that disclaimer.

1. It honestly makes me laugh that in the first post that we, the development and GM team, are instantly accused of GM-favoritism towards Divinity (?). Seriously folks. Last week IB was on a complete tear claiming our favoritism towards Trans. [sarcasm] So I guess by about this time next week it will be IB's turn for the favortism? /laugh [/sarcasm].

Seriously folks please step back here and use some logic. Every one of these disputes has two opinions. In the end one of these opinions will be at least somewhat validated. This leaves the people of the other opinion as sad kittens. These sad kittens then come to the forums for a few days bitching and complaining about the way things are handled.

2. Short comment on this event in particular.

Members of Transcendence, Divinity and IB all confirmed that Trans was the first guild in the zone. No one has disputed that fact. Just because you are the first in the zone does not constitute you to get that raid target. If you are actively working towards that raid target, and another guild enters the zone and wishes to also engage that target, then the SECOND guild is to call a 30 minute timer on the first guild. This means that the secondary guild has 30 minutes to engage the raid target (Use some common sense here folks).

Here lies the problem with this individual situation. You do NOT get 30 minutes to kill the target. If you attempt to engage the target, or even engage creatures on the way to the target, and have a significant portion of your raid group die and forces you to stop and rez yourselves and recover, you lose your attempt. Consider your attempt null and void. Obviously deaths happen. I am not sitting here saying that if any raid member dies, they instantly lose their right to a target. I am saying that if you lose a significant portion of your raid and you are forced to completely halt your progress to the encounter to try and rez the majority of your guild, then you should consider yourself susceptible to a guild passing you.

This is the case that happened with Trans. We had members of Transcendence admitting to wiping in the process to Maestro. Under the rules of the rotation it would fall into this category:

If that raid fails then you are free to take your shot and so on.

Your raid failed on the way to your encounter. Which meaning effectively you lost your chance at the mob. There was a mutual understanding between Divinity and IB that Divinity was there first. Since you guys wiped in the process of reaching Maestro, Divinity effectively deserved the legal right to leapfrog you guys.

3. Learn the fucking rules. Seriously.

I keep seeing this stated over and over that "Transcendence called their 30 minute time to reserve the right to engage Maestro!" This is not how it works. It is pretty clearly laid out in the rules so I am going to quote the relevant portions below:

If a raid force is at the raid target and you begin gathering your own forces you are required to give the raid for that was there first a grace period of 30 minutes. Upon the arrival of your own raid force you must give them a 30 minute warning. If after 25 minutes they have not engaged the creature then you are free to give them a final 5 minute warning. After the 30 minutes are up you are free to engage the creature (Screenshots and logs of your attempted communication will be required).

It seems pretty clear to be. If your own force arrives at a target that is already occupied by another guild, you are required to give them a 30-minute warning to ENGAGE the creature. They get one shot. If they fail (as in completely wipe/camp) then you are free to engage before the 30 minute timer is up as seen in:

You must respect other players and raid forces. If a raid force is at a raid target before you are than you are not allowed to engage that monster before they take a shot at it (Within 30 minutes). If that raid fails then you are free to take your shot and so on.

The rules seem pretty cut and dry to me. But maybe that is because I was the one who wrote it up. If it will help to have a meeting with a member from each of the raiding guilds (or any other guild who desires to raid) to go over the rules and make sure people understand their rights. By all means contact myself and we can discuss it on IRC sometime.

3. As far as consistency with punishment goes: Every situation is an individual situation.

Since all the details have been made public in this thread by others (including the suspended player) I don't mind discussing the details of why a decision such as that is made.

-It is a raid target.
-It is a contested raid target.
-It was ninja-looted by a guild who had no right to the target.
-It was an attempt to take matters into their own hands to decide that if they didn't get the loot; no one did.

It was just a really stupid move, with an extreme malice intent. They were suspended (not perma-banned) for these reasons.

Every situation will be handled individually and have a lot of factors involved in the process. But like Rogean said: You DON'T know all the details, so don't act like you do. People make assumptions and then threads like these pop up.

So anyways that is all I really have to say. I am sure the flames will continue and the bitching will live on forever, but peace folks. See you in about 4 days when we re-hash the same bitching with a different guild being "victimized."

PS: Maestro. You guys are fighting over Maestro. Srsly?

[Salty]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And you wonder why GMs don't respond to these threads? Some of them take like 30 minutes to read.. and half of it is lies or conjecture based on half-rumored evidence. I know its easy to jump to your own truths.. but there is seriously some funny shit in here.

I saw GM typed way too many times not to restate the obvious.

-We do not answer to you.
-Player punishments are none of your concern.
-If you petition about someone else's punishment, don't expect us to respond.

It is fucking hilarious for anyone to believe we care enough about in-game controversy to be corrupt... LOL. Stop and think for a second.. about how we *really* do not care, and you will have arrived at the truth.

I thought I originally favored IB, then it switched to Transcendance, or is it back to IB now? Will Divinity get a shot at the corruption title? I don't read enough of the soap opera digest to keep track of who I'm supposed to be corrupt with.

You have created your own drama.. and you can't deal with each other. It's very funny from my perspective.

I know its been that way since the dawn of EQ. Players get upset and look to the sky and say.. "oh no, I can't fathom not knowing the reasoning behind everything, let us blame the gods."

I read all the posts up to this point, and some of it is right. Most of it is wrong. There's nothing we can say that will stop you from continuing on, so I just wanted to throw some truth on this reality tv daytime judge show drama bullshit.

As long as there are no non-consensual personal attacks, or ANY flaming of the staff, please continue.

Rallos Zek fills us with RAGE!