What game change would you suggest?

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Sorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. shared bank slots
2. Nerf Soulfire so only pallies can use it
3. have some actual moderation in the forums to get rid of at least most of the trolls
4. more regular patches and updates to fix bugs/issues

Since we are moanquesting atm about what updates would be great to patch in, I like all of these ideas but just want to add more on this topic.

If they fix Soulfire, why not fix all the clickies that get recharged rendering raids a giant crapfest of click? Fix them all then, every item that is exploited - not just Soulfire.

Also, exactly how do you moderate trolling?

Trolling to one person isn't trolling to another, and let's be honest some trolling is harmless and only done in fun, genuinely written to create playful banter with other people. The problem is some people seem unable to differentiate what is being written in fun and take it personal or too seriously.

Not sure how you expect them to moderate more than they already do, as they ensure people do not use racist epithets or other extremely upsetting and vulgar words which are personal attacks and highly upsetting to others.

Originally Posted by Sorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are no good trolls. I say we kill them all.

*casts Wildfire on your fedora and bows mockingly* m'lady

Nice try Skarlorn, he sees through your deceitful shroud of eloquently written words. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[skarlorn]

Sorn just jealous him not RNF skilled. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Sorn]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, exactly how do you moderate trolling?

Trolling to one person isn't trolling to another, and let's be honest some trolling is harmless and only done in fun, genuinely written to create playful banter with other people. The problem is some people seem unable to differentiate what is being written in fun and take it personal or too seriously.

Not sure how you expect them to moderate more than they already do, as they ensure people do not use racist epithets or other extremely upsetting and vulgar words which are personal attacks and highly upsetting to others.

It crosses a line when you have a whole subculture for trolling. The harmless trolling you mention is more like teasing. If I tell someone I'm going to sacrifice them in the name of Cazic Thule while on my iksar, that's not going to be considered trolling by anyone.

On p99 we've got people who will call each other useless cucks, promote white supremacy in subtle and various forms, write long misogynist posts, call each other disabled, gossip, revel in shitposting, and at this point they rate the trolliness of everyone else's posts. It's a game to see how far they can push it before they get banned (temporarily, for some reason). Forumquesters who roleplay on the forum as various awful types of people or trolls, who roll 'alts' and pretend to be other people? That is insanity. I'm sure someone out there is thinking 'oh, lighten up, Sorn, it's a game we play and it's fun, you just have no sense of humor'. Sure, if I lose my sense of right and wrong, I too can hang out in RnF all day bemoaning the lack of good threads or making shitposts while thinking anyone who hates forumquest is just too sensitive. As it is, I absolutely do not take any post on here or anything I see in-game personally and I do recognize the in-joke aspect of it, but I still don't think it has a place here.

You're saying 'the definition of trolling is subjective as long as no one's using vulgar words or personal attacks'. It's like the one guy at a party telling everyone to lighten up when they don't find the joke about black people funny and no one gets his sense of humor and what's the problem since he didn't use the 'n' word, except 30% of the party is comprised of people just like that one guy and the host is ignoring what's going on. They might be great guys elsewhere, but left unchecked they consider it acceptable to ruin a party by being unpleasant and telling shitty jokes.

90% of p99 players do not come to the forums because these people turn it into a toxic cesspool for their own pleasure. If you can't see it, then you're in too deep. Moderation on these forums is negligible if all they look out for is technicalities like bad words. Should the bare minimum for enforcement of common decency be to make sure no one makes public death threats or uses bad words?

I think it's bullshit that you're arguing that it's subjective. It's only subjective because the trolls have chased off most of the sane people who don't find forumquesting amusing, leaving only themselves in a little echo chamber so they can pretend they're the majority and can define sanity. This is the culture that helped enable GG to cause all the chaos he did in the beginning when he should have been seeking help or finding better things to do with his life. This is the culture that promotes casual sociopathy and tries to excuse it by telling the rest to lighten up. Five minutes browsing RnF or Off Topic is all a regular player would need to understand this.

The troll subculture is endemic to gaming and the internet, but it needn't be so prominent in p99. Our shit standards for moderating the forums, the obsessive persistence of our trolls, and the management of the CSR side enabling this sort of nonsense leads to this forum being a haven for such things. We represent the p99 community as a forum. Sadly, as a whole we do a truly awful job. If you are so bored that you don't play anymore and just shitpost on the forums, consider leaving. Annoyed that random people reading the shitposts don't get your humor or take offense to your bullshit? Keep it to elfpals where they truly understand you.

That's all I've got to say on the topic. Thanks for reading.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Sorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think it's bullshit that you're arguing that it's subjective.

Anytime something written is hurtful and abusive, or insultive in nature such as using a recognized racial slur that's not necessarily trolling, that's being an insensitive scumbag.

I think you confuse trolling with abusive behavior, when in actuality trolling is not by definition as you described.

They moderate people on the forums when they cross the line and do all the nasty things you described above, things like using bigoted terms or racial slurs. Again, doing that is not being a troll.

Trolling can be done within the context of the game and what is written about the game on the forums, and for me I see no issue with that.

IMO, trolling is in essence fishing for attention via wordplay, and anyone that writes on the forums does so for the very same purpose. Some do so more than others.

This is my viewpoint, while others may feel that it should be fine to call someone a racial slur or homophobic slur... That's why I said it's a subjective opinion, what should be allowed or not.

We both may agree that slurs should not be allowed, but the fact is some other people feel it's bogus they cannot use such terms or words. How can you say this is not subjective then?

[skarlorn]

On p99 we've got people who will call each other useless cucks, promote white supremacy in subtle and various forms, write long misogynist posts, call each other disabled, gossip, revel in shitposting, and at this point they rate the trolliness of everyone else's posts.

You're comparing white supremacists, misogynists, and those who lob heated personal attacks to ones who have created a subculture of forum friends who use memes to entertain themselves on a forum for people who play project 1999 everquest.

Please note that the Mods created a place called RNF where the sole purpose is to shit talk other p99 players. It says 'enter at your own risk.' They will suspend you for RNF style trolling outside of RNF. (edit: they have also recently suspended a bunch of people for hate speech and stuff WITHIN RNF.)

There's a difference, Sorn. I think you are being a little sanctimonious here.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by skarlorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're comparing white supremacists, misogynists, and those who lob heated personal attacks to ones who have created a subculture of forum friends who use memes to entertain themselves on a forum for people who play project 1999 everquest.

Please note that the Mods created a place called RNF where the sole purpose is to shit talk other p99 players. It says 'enter at your own risk.' They will suspend you for RNF style trolling outside of RNF. (edit: they have also recently suspended a bunch of people for hate speech and stuff WITHIN RNF.)

There's a difference, Sorn. I think you are being a little sanctimonious here.

Yeah even better worded, that's what I was tryin to say! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nice word useage bro, you in rare form today! I love the word SANCTIMONIOUS!

[skarlorn]

thank you lhance, i appreciate your appreciation!

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by skarlorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

thank you lhance, i appreciate your appreciation!

I had to look it up to be sure of the meaning I feel dum. Always good to refresh the vocabulary though.

[skarlorn]

I feel like Sorn might have just dropped a text-wall and now is refusing to discuss it. That's like walking in to a room of people, telling them that three quarters of them deserve to be put in prison for life, shitting in the middle of the room, and then walking out.

Kind of cool, I guess. But also very rude!

Hopefully he is just busy in RL and will get back to us soon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Sorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On p99 we've got people who will call each other useless cucks, promote white supremacy in subtle and various forms, write long misogynist posts, call each other disabled, gossip, revel in shitposting ...

...but I still don't think it has a place here ...

... 90% of p99 players do not come to the forums because these people turn it into a toxic cesspool for their own pleasure.

So, just to be clear, I have absolutely nothing at all against a bunch of adults having fun on the internet in a non-PC way ... but I agree with Sorn just because I think this forum should be for people who want to discuss EverQuest first, and those people second. If that fun scares away people who just want to talk EverQuest (and it does; I don't know how many times I've heard people in-game bash this forum and its toxicity), then it doesn't belong here.

And maybe it never belonged here in the first place: if you enjoy RnF there are plenty of other non-15+-year-old-elf-sim forums you can have that fun in (eg. 4chan). But if you came to discuss classic EverQuest and are disgusted by the RnF community/spirit here (which absolutely bleeds over in to how people act in non-RnF forums) you don't really have any other option: /r/project1999 on Reddit gets maybe one post a day.