Spells: Bard Song Changes

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Abysis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you put 12 sec recast on all songs you might as well delete bards as a playable class.

Originally Posted by To which I already said:

It would only impair the functionality of a few songs significantly (mez, charm in some cases, manasong, etc.)

It would affect our ability to CC and to pump mana efficiently. That's pretty much it. I'd be disappointed, sure, but I'd rather someone find evidence (even if it's just anecdotal) of how things used to be, instead of complaining about an outcome that makes my class marginally worse without even positing that it's an un-classic change.

If you really think it makes Bards unplayable though, I wonder if you'll put your money where your mouth is [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Lazortag]

I just scoured all of the patch history on alla from 1999-2005 and saw not one mention of Bard recast times being implemented or taken away. I'm not convinced that they ever existed, the evidence Uthgaard is using has been known to be a bit inaccurate regarding other things (as pointed out in some threads in the kunark bugs forums). The original poster can't provide any evidence other than what he remembers, yet others seem to remember differently. It would be good to get some more evidence from others in either direction still.

edit: if it is true that these recast timers were in place, how would that have affected Bards who just kept songs playing passively? Would the song stop and they'd have to recast, or would it simply recast 12 seconds later automatically?

[Lazortag]

http://web.archive.org/web/200008312...ells/bard.html

22- Alenias Disenchanting Melody - Unknown effect
Uses a stringed instrument, cannot be sung.
...

From August 2000.

Also, has this song been fixed to affect group members yet? It used to just say "blahblah is protected" or whatever.

[Uthgaard]

The spell file isn't inaccurate. It's one snapshot of a changing spell system.

If you don't remember the Jonthan's line being targettable buffs, you probably won't remember recast delays.

[astuce999]

maybe the OP was thinking of ancient mez?

I first read this thread hoping there was finally some progress on implementing the push component back into bard mezzes.... but alas.

I remember kiting crocs in oasis at lvl 12 in classic using selo's, bellow, bellow in a 3 song twist.

I remember people talking about how a 3 song twist was the maximum unless you had one of those rare DSL connection, then you could play 4.

I remember having to target myself to play jonthan's, and how it made the song useless.

cheers

[cvinion]

heres 2001

http://web.archive.org/web/200104211...gs.asp?song=15

http://web.archive.org/web/200111212...gs.asp?song=29

http://web.archive.org/web/200106300...gs.asp?song=29

Not entirely 99 but still velious era.

From 2000, Kunark Era
http://web.archive.org/web/200012052...ns.asp?Id=1057

http://web.archive.org/web/200105051...asp?SpellID=17

http://web.archive.org/web/200203082...+Lullaby&type=

http://web.archive.org/web/200203082...e+Strike&type=

And the Coup de Grace to stop bards from getting nerfed.


Quoted from 2000 post


Actually, this song is very useful. Bards can mez almost as well as enchanters with this at higher levels. I group with a 51 bard often in Karnor, and she is our mezer, and can handle up to 3 mobs at a time. It is not meant to do any dmg or anything of that sorts. How often it resists depends on your charisma. Your charisma should be at least 150, if it isn't then you are one messed up bard and need to get that up. The three main things bards need are charisma, ac, and dex in that order.

If the song had a 12 second recast then there would be no way to keep 3 mobs mezzed with the song duration.


Please don't nerf bards.

[Lazortag]

The post you mention is from 2001.

Still I have an extremely hard time believing that this was in place for a significant amount of time, considering not one site on the internet mentions something so obviously crippling for a bard's ability to mez. What is the amount of time the devs plan to keep this in place? I'm okay with keeping it in place a short time and taking it out promptly after to be in line with classic, but since there's so little evidence of this actually existing, it's also difficult to find evidence of this being taken out, so what you're asking us to provide evidence for is impossible.

[BobSmith]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The spell file isn't inaccurate. It's one snapshot of a changing spell system.

If you don't remember the Jonthan's line being targettable buffs, you probably won't remember recast delays.

What spell file are you looking at?

[BobSmith]

Here is some circumstantial evidence against a 12 second recast on all songs that dates from late 1999. Both snippets are taken from "newbie" guides, and explain how to twist songs, but neither mentions a 12 second recast, or any kind of recast delay.

Think about how you might explain twisting just two songs to a new bard. I would think that some mention of a recast would be critical.

Captured by the internet archive from "The Concert Hall" on "11/28/1999" (http://web.archive.org/web/199911280...per/nafai1.htm):

Also, learn to juggle early on and juggle your songs anytime you are in combat, even if one doesn’t have a huge effect—the practice will be invaluable. Juggling is the method of having the effects of two songs going at once. Song effects last a few seconds after you stop singing them, giving you time to fire another one off, stopping it after you see the effect start, going back to the original song, etc. This can be done with 2 songs reliably, and occasionally a third can be thrown in, although it is extremely rare for all three effects to be active at the same time.

Captured by the internet archive from "The Concert Hall" on "11/29/1999" (http://web.archive.org/web/199911290...per/cheryl.htm):

Twisting Your Songs

THIS SKILL IS ESSENTIAL. Twisting is a way to sing more than one song and get the affects of 2 to 3 songs at the same time. To do this simply sing a song until the affect takes hold, stop singing it and start another, (since most buffing songs have about a 5 second delay before the affect goes away you can sing another song, stop it and resing the last song before it goes away) thereby singing two songs at once.

I hope this guide has helped you, and remember you don't have to follow this guide exactly, this is just my advice on the best experience and loot for your newly born bard.

[BobSmith]

Here is more circumstantial evidence. This was captured on 10/5/1999 from "EQlizer" (http://web.archive.org/web/199910052...lass/bard.html). The bard class guide has no mention of a recast delay on songs in the section that briefly explains twisting.

Before we delve into spells it's important to note the way bard spells work. Bard spells will continually sing once you select the spell. They will loop until you deselect the spell or begin singing another song. There are two tactics which should be noted for bard song singing.

The first is song stacking. Each song has a duration. This duration will remain in effect for a few seconds after you stop singing a song. With a little practice you can toggle between singing different songs and get multiple spell effects up at one time. It takes a little practice but it's an invaluable tactic at higher levels.