Spells: Necromancers and Shamans should receive the Charm (anything) line of spells at launch

[Quinas]

Heavens.

[Dolalin]

Proof that Shaman NPCs were charming:

4/21/99

Ah yes but you see it's not actually the non-pvp that harms you but
the shaman NPC that charms them. They're used like a magic user uses
his/her pet.

> Sheesh, I leave UO to avoid the annoying PKs, and I get PKed on my third
> day in EQ 8-).

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....A/z6YE0kIKasAJ

Proof Necromancer NPCs were charming:

3/31/99

I've been charmed a couple of times by a wandering Necro - only lasted a few
seconds but maybe that's because I'm a cleric with high wisdom. Once during
a lull in his powers(?) I grasped at a straw and cast cure disease on myself
it seemed to work and I was free from his evil clutches. Alas, my elation
was short lived and I soon met an untimely demise, but I died a free man
nonetheless.
A lot of fun this game is with all the interesting twists ("What
the....!?!....Ack!!!.....hmm....Yes!!!!.....D'oh!" )

Pistos

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....Q/uK5J-J5idGIJ

[Izmael]

Add the ability to the mobs only.

Players will abuse it to an extent beyond everything we've seen until now. This will work against the classic *experience*.

[Dolalin]

Charm has a lvl25 cap and Beguile has a lvl39 cap. It's not exactly game-breaking for a Shaman to be able to charm greens or a necro (who gets undead charm anyways) to charm blues with their shitty charisma scores.

I have a feeling the Shaman charm was removed because it was mostly useless anyways.

[Glasken]

Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Charm has a lvl25 cap and Beguile has a lvl39 cap. It's not exactly game-breaking for a Shaman to be able to charm greens or a necro (who gets undead charm anyways) to charm blues with their shitty charisma scores.

I have a feeling the Shaman charm was removed because it was mostly useless anyways.

Not to derail but, this brings an interesting question.

Undead charm on a necro, animal charm on a druid/shm etc... dont have a charisma check.

I am wondering if that is due to the class casting the spell, or the spell itself.

If the former, charm will be a tad broken in a number of key camps around the level those spells are available to a necro. If the later, well, human necro with some steins ftw?

[Dolalin]

Good thinking Glasken. That could be something that would have to be addressed if this is implemented.

I see enchanter threads on P99 recommending *at least* 200cha to charm safely so I'm not sure two steins would do it. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Glasken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not to derail but, this brings an interesting question.

Undead charm on a necro, animal charm on a druid/shm etc... dont have a charisma check.

I am wondering if that is due to the class casting the spell, or the spell itself.

If the former, charm will be a tad broken in a number of key camps around the level those spells are available to a necro. If the later, well, human necro with some steins ftw?

Has anyone ever even been able to confirm that necro did NOT have a charisma check? As far as I know this is just a rumor/speculation.

My understanding was always that the charisma check was just more generous for certain classes but it still existed. Necros for instance got a much more generous charisma check on their charisma-linked spells; while enchanters got a much more harsh one. I've discussed this here in the past, as I was totally convinced(and still am) that something is incredibly off with lulls on necromancers.

edit here it is :

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/...arisma.220085/

"Yes it is. It varies on a number of spells to its actual usefulness but it does have a use. There are different levels of charisma for different classes. The system does take into account that an Enchanter should have a higher charisma than say a Necromancer. It's unfair to expect masters of the undead to be entirely charismatic. "

[Quinas]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Has anyone ever even been able to confirm that necro did NOT have a charisma check? As far as I know this is just a rumor/speculation.

My understanding was always that the charisma check was just more generous for certain classes but it still existed. Necros for instance got a much more generous charisma check on their charisma-linked spells; while enchanters got a much more harsh one. I've discussed this here in the past, as I was totally convinced(and still am) that something is incredibly off with lulls on necromancers.

edit here it is :

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/...arisma.220085/

"Yes it is. It varies on a number of spells to its actual usefulness but it does have a use. There are different levels of charisma for different classes. The system does take into account that an Enchanter should have a higher charisma than say a Necromancer. It's unfair to expect masters of the undead to be entirely charismatic. "

There is a sizeable group on this forum who will tell you CHA has no effect on charm breaks for Enchanters.

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Charm has a lvl25 cap and Beguile has a lvl39 cap. It's not exactly game-breaking for a Shaman to be able to charm greens or a necro (who gets undead charm anyways) to charm blues with their shitty charisma scores.

I have a feeling the Shaman charm was removed because it was mostly useless anyways.

A level 39 pet is pretty solid, especially if hasted and dual-wielding (SHM). Combine with solid ability to kill on top of that (dots, JBB), quite some tankage, mana regen, and we get a broken class.

[Dolalin]

A shaman would never be able to charm a mob over level 25, and only at level 34. And it's patched out four months after launch.

In any event we aren't here to debate class design, we're here to recreate how things were in classic. This is how they were in classic.