Spells: Necromancers and Shamans should receive the Charm (anything) line of spells at launch

[Quinas]

Heavens.

[Dolalin]

Proof that Shaman NPCs were charming:

4/21/99

Ah yes but you see it's not actually the non-pvp that harms you but
the shaman NPC that charms them. They're used like a magic user uses
his/her pet.

> Sheesh, I leave UO to avoid the annoying PKs, and I get PKed on my third
> day in EQ 8-).

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....A/z6YE0kIKasAJ

Proof Necromancer NPCs were charming:

3/31/99

I've been charmed a couple of times by a wandering Necro - only lasted a few
seconds but maybe that's because I'm a cleric with high wisdom. Once during
a lull in his powers(?) I grasped at a straw and cast cure disease on myself
it seemed to work and I was free from his evil clutches. Alas, my elation
was short lived and I soon met an untimely demise, but I died a free man
nonetheless.
A lot of fun this game is with all the interesting twists ("What
the....!?!....Ack!!!.....hmm....Yes!!!!.....D'oh!" )

Pistos

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....Q/uK5J-J5idGIJ

[Izmael]

Add the ability to the mobs only.

Players will abuse it to an extent beyond everything we've seen until now. This will work against the classic *experience*.

[Dolalin]

Charm has a lvl25 cap and Beguile has a lvl39 cap. It's not exactly game-breaking for a Shaman to be able to charm greens or a necro (who gets undead charm anyways) to charm blues with their shitty charisma scores.

I have a feeling the Shaman charm was removed because it was mostly useless anyways.

[Glasken]

Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Charm has a lvl25 cap and Beguile has a lvl39 cap. It's not exactly game-breaking for a Shaman to be able to charm greens or a necro (who gets undead charm anyways) to charm blues with their shitty charisma scores.

I have a feeling the Shaman charm was removed because it was mostly useless anyways.

Not to derail but, this brings an interesting question.

Undead charm on a necro, animal charm on a druid/shm etc... dont have a charisma check.

I am wondering if that is due to the class casting the spell, or the spell itself.

If the former, charm will be a tad broken in a number of key camps around the level those spells are available to a necro. If the later, well, human necro with some steins ftw?

[Dolalin]

Good thinking Glasken. That could be something that would have to be addressed if this is implemented.

I see enchanter threads on P99 recommending *at least* 200cha to charm safely so I'm not sure two steins would do it. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Charm has a lvl25 cap and Beguile has a lvl39 cap. It's not exactly game-breaking for a Shaman to be able to charm greens or a necro (who gets undead charm anyways) to charm blues with their shitty charisma scores.

I have a feeling the Shaman charm was removed because it was mostly useless anyways.

A level 39 pet is pretty solid, especially if hasted and dual-wielding (SHM). Combine with solid ability to kill on top of that (dots, JBB), quite some tankage, mana regen, and we get a broken class.

[Dolalin]

A shaman would never be able to charm a mob over level 25, and only at level 34. And it's patched out four months after launch.

In any event we aren't here to debate class design, we're here to recreate how things were in classic. This is how they were in classic.

[DMN]

To people looking at things with "blue-tinted glasses":

1. The top 44-49 pets were significantly stronger for both necros and mages than they are on blue.
2. Necros could not haste their charms but could haste their pets.
3. Because of 1 and 2 necros would get similar damage by just buffing their pets versus charming a live mob. Much higher risk, low reward.
4. Necros had no mez back then so handling charms was a lot more complicated/risky.
5. necros had no way(via spells) to lower the MR of a charm target.
6. Enchanters were extremely rare. I had the only enchanter in a 100+ person guild in the first couple months. I only mention this because if you pair the necro up with an enchanter you see a lot of the problems with necros getting the most out of charming fade away.
7. Charming in general wasn't terribly good back then due to the paucity of mobs. You were happy to find just a single spawn to pull. Charming a mob meant you were tying up exp/loot.

Because of all these reasons necros weren't even concerned over losing charm, but were incredibly upset about the delay nerf and the stat nerf on high level pets.

[Dolalin]

Add to this that necros still get undead charm and one of the main end game zones will be lower guk, full of dead frogs, who are hasteable with the necro's haste (I think?) versus live mobs who are not... it's a tempest in a teapot.