Raid Changes

[Onadan]

I think the timer should start as soon as Guild B has the 15 man claim limit in the zone.

[NergalTD]

How many people do you guys have exactly in your two guilds???

Not enough to meet demand? You have got to be kidding me.

Dunno how many people we're talking about...I'm not in either guild. It's simple common sense though. If there were enough high-end targets to go around, there wouldn't be conflict over them.

This isn't about meeting demand. This is about greed. Certain people in both guilds simply want to have the very best items available currently in game in each slot and probably an alt or three with the very best tradable gear in the game.

Partial agreement...it's not entirely about demand.

I don't see why the GM's or the rest of the community should bend over backwards just so a few people can feel like gods among men before the next expansion comes out.

Complete agreement. However, whether we agree with them or not, the Devs feel this issue is bad enough that they have to address it. There's going to be peace in the sandbox even if they have to wield a hammer to do it. I don't necessarily think the current solution is good, or ulimately viable long term...but I certianly understand why they've gone down this road.

I think spawn timer variance can be an answer, but the variance has to be sufficiently large that it effectively discourages spawn camping. The definition of 'sufficiently large' is open to community debate...

[Naerron]

I think a few people are way off base here. Getting to kill raid targets, for most of us, is not about wanting to be "gods among noobs" but rather getting to frickin raid lol. I love to raid, that's what kept me in EQ for so long, if it was a game that u just got great gear from group lvl shit i prob woulda quit. That being said here are my thoughts on rotation/competition.

Rotations have their obvious benefits. I know on transcendance's first naggy kill we were trained 3 times before we could even get to the mob. Once the trainers admitted it their guild helped us CR. A rotation eliminates this sort of behavior, and reduces a lot of stress for guild/raid leaders. It also ensures that everyone on the server who as at raiding lvl gets to have some fun and raid. That being said tho..

Mob competition is innately part of EQ. Notably the game started losing many of its key guilds and "celebrity" players when raids started being instance, example is Furror in FoH with plane of time. There are key skills raiding guilds need to be successful that really separate the casuals from the good players, most importantly its teamwork in mobility to a raid target. Having mobs on rotation completely takes this aspect out of the game.

Why did we start needing rotations already? Mostly its because of the lack of raid content available, when there was enough guilds on live to really cause competition between the guilds there were enough targets that a guild could still raid atleast something, even if it was not the mob they had their eyes on. Like i said earlier this is the real motivation for most of us, getting to raid. My solution is not some grand master plan and spawn timer and GM watchings us like babies, but simply give us the other planes to raid. This will alleviate the pressure big time.

However, if this is not in the realm of possibility, due to progression sequence wanted to be maintained by the GMs, then really without their being a cry drama fest rotations seem to be the best route. IF the decision to stay on rotation is kept tho, i think it should be limited to a 4 hour grace period to mobilize and kill the mob before it move to the next guild in the rotation. This low grace period does a few things, it keeps guilds needing to be ready and still leaves a little room for mobilization to be a factor, also it make sure the mob is dead at least close tot he spawn time, this 24 hour crap is BS and makes the mob really a 7-9 day spawn instead of 7 days witht he +/- factor in the respawn.

If anyone is still reading this i sort of feel sorry for you.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Naerron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think a few people are.. ... ..i sort of feel sorry for you.

Naerron you are well spoken and obviously you have thought about your responses. I really agree with a lot of what you said and I really wish we could bring that kind of attitude to the bargaining table.

[drplump]

There a few easy solutions I can think of:

1)Put a huge fuckoff mob in their place thats level 255 and invulnerable with same arrgo range that is silently replaced with raid mob to prevent afk on spawn point.

2)Have the raid target shout the name of the first person to appear on its arrgo list. You could even have it automatically banish all players form other guilds for 5 minutes.

3)Make raid targets boot everyone from zone and repop all other mobs when they spawn or a fun variation of auto killing anyone in range right when they spawn.

I think a combination of 1 and 2 would be the best. This just a case of doing an hour of coding work now to replace all the time it takes to announce who got first hit.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by drplump [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There a few easy solutions I can think of:

1)Put a huge fuckoff mob in their place thats level 255 and invulnerable with same arrgo range that is silently replaced with raid mob to prevent afk on spawn point.

2)Have the raid target shout the name of the first person to appear on its arrgo list. You could even have it automatically banish all players form other guilds for 5 minutes.

3)Make raid targets boot everyone from zone and repop all other mobs when they spawn or a fun variation of auto killing anyone in range right when they spawn.

I think a combination of 1 and 2 would be the best. This just a case of doing an hour of coding work now to replace all the time it takes to announce who got first hit.

I actually like all of these suggestions, but #1 they would not be classic (who would agree to this? seriously I would, but I don't really care about things being exactly classic like many do), and #2 they might be hard to code.

[Taluvill]

Originally Posted by drplump [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There a few easy solutions I can think of:

1)Put a huge fuckoff mob in their place thats level 255 and invulnerable with same arrgo range that is silently replaced with raid mob to prevent afk on spawn point.

2)Have the raid target shout the name of the first person to appear on its arrgo list. You could even have it automatically banish all players form other guilds for 5 minutes.

3)Make raid targets boot everyone from zone and repop all other mobs when they spawn or a fun variation of auto killing anyone in range right when they spawn.

I think a combination of 1 and 2 would be the best. This just a case of doing an hour of coding work now to replace all the time it takes to announce who got first hit.

I can agree with some of them, although number one can be worked around, have people sit in the fg area, for naggy for example. or have them hold the royals group... ect.
I like #2 and #3 a LOT, although i agree with hasbin, they might take a lot of time to code.

Whoever suggested a 7 day spawn timer would be good, would take time to ensure that the spawn wasnt easy to figure out and so that said mob wouldnt repop within, say, an hour of the kill.

Finally, Pikle has a point. These discussions need to be opened up to our future generations of raiders, if they'd like to be in on it. Would suck if we decided on a sucky, BS system and watched as others had to live with it. Dont think for a second we will be the only 2 high end guilds forever.

(PS: totally off topic, but i wonder what kind of legitimate exposure we could get from posting on the Alla's forums, and possibly getting a special nod on the allas site? probably too much to ask, but im sure there are HUNDREDS of people who would love to play here, just are unaware of it. )

[Deanob]

Thats not going to work, otherwise were back at the problem where one guild kills FG hours prior to having a raid force.

It should be first to engange > NO KS'ing otherwise punishment is placed. Simple.

Eg. A,B,C guilds have scouts. naggy spawns randomly withing 2 day timer. All three guilds head to SolB. A guild is first to engage has full right to the mob. If B and C guilds attempt to engage at any time, will be reported and dealt with. Everyone in the guild will be held accountable for their actions including the members who were online. It will let the guilds think twice before they attempt to KS a target...

[Wenai]

Originally Posted by Deanob [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thats not going to work, otherwise were back at the problem where one guild kills FG hours prior to having a raid force.

It should be first to engange > NO KS'ing otherwise punishment is placed. Simple.

Eg. A,B,C guilds have scouts. naggy spawns randomly withing 2 day timer. All three guilds head to SolB. A guild is first to engage has full right to the mob. If B and C guilds attempt to engage at any time, will be reported and dealt with. Everyone in the guild will be held accountable for their actions including the members who were online. It will let the guilds think twice before they attempt to KS a target...

Problem. We don't want to be involved at all. So you guys need to police yourselves and come up with a system in which there is a definitive claim or else we are back at square one.

[Onadan]

Originally Posted by Deanob [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thats not going to work, otherwise were back at the problem where one guild kills FG hours prior to having a raid force.

It should be first to engange > NO KS'ing otherwise punishment is placed. Simple.

Eg. A,B,C guilds have scouts. naggy spawns randomly withing 2 day timer. All three guilds head to SolB. A guild is first to engage has full right to the mob. If B and C guilds attempt to engage at any time, will be reported and dealt with. Everyone in the guild will be held accountable for their actions including the members who were online. It will let the guilds think twice before they attempt to KS a target...

Who cares if they have 15 people in zone and start clearing FG's? If they dont engage in 120min/dont have the force, then you can bypass them and thank them for clearing the FGs.