Face Diapers Don't Do Anything

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IIRC Raev made the error of equating weather with climate change in a thread a few years back and everyone made sure he never forgot it, myself included.

Probably you mean this. I'm not particularly proud of that little zinger at the end in hindsight, but I don't think the actual post is wrong. In any case, I hope we can confine our discussions to masks today!

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That one was shown to be more effective than the other implies that either would have been favorable over none at all.

This is clearly wrong: in some cases there is a minimum requirement for any action to be beneficial. For example, just because a cloth bag can hold a bowling ball but a plastic bag breaks does not mean that using the plastic bag is better than carrying the bowling ball with your bare hands.

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am still reading through the Denmark link

Cool; I hope you enjoy it! And I hope I am not being too greedy when I ask you to consider reading the link I posted earlier about the doctors in surgery. It's short. However, I thought I'd take a look at https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118 and quite frankly . . . this is a classic example of politicized science. Let's take a look at some of the quotes:

Therefore, we should not be surprised to find that there is no RCT for the impact of masks on community transmission of any respiratory infection in a pandemic.

I have to confess this sentence made my blood boil. This, right here, is political science. 'Hey, all previous work on masks not working on viral transmission? That doesn't matter! We are in a pandemic. Why are we in a pandemic? We say so!' and then, 'Oh by the way, without an RCT we cannot rule out millions of potential causes that might bias our results. No problem! We're in a pandemic! It's SCIENCE because we say it is!' If there is one thing I hope we can agree on it is that this paper is written by twits.

It found that “in an adjusted analysis of compliant subjects, masks as a group had protective efficacy in excess of 80% against clinical influenza-like illness.” However, the authors noted that they “found compliance to be low, but compliance is affected by perception of risk. In a pandemic, we would expect compliance to improve.” In compliant users, masks were highly effective at reducing transmission.

Again, this is simply dishonest because they are attempting to make it seem that compliance causes protection, when most likely the causality runs in the OTHER direction: people stopped using the masks because they got sick!

That review concluded that “there was insufficient evidence to provide a recommendation on the use of facial barriers without other measures.”

Just throwing this out there; 1/3 of the review papers they quote disagrees with them. No effort is made to refute this opinion.

Overall, direct evidence of the efficacy of mask use is supportive, but inconclusive. Since there are no RCTs, only one observational trial, and unclear evidence from other respiratory illnesses, we will need to look at a wider body of evidence.

So even the authors admit that their cherry picked studies are not conclusive.

Consider, for instance, the impact of source control: Its effect occurs to other individuals in the population, not the individual who implements the intervention by wearing a mask.

This, by the way, is the main potential flaw in the Danish study. This past year has been the first time that government succeeded in convincing entire communities to wear masks.

We need to consider first principles—transmission properties of the disease, controlled biophysical characterizations—alongside observational data, partially informative RCTs (primarily with respect to PPE), natural experiments (26), and policy implementation considerations—a discursive synthesis of interdisciplinary lines of evidence which are disparate by necessity

Translation: we are about to crank the bullshit level up to 11, but hey, we're SCIENCE. I can only repeat that all of these after the fact observational studies are garbage. There are a million different reasons why COVID deaths can be lower in a particular nation. The biggest one, by the way, is simply fraud. Unless you seriously believe the Chinese numbers . . .

We recommend that public officials and governments strongly encourage the use of widespread face masks in public, including the use of appropriate regulation.

And boom, the money shot. Totally unwarranted by the actual body of the paper, but everyone involved is now sure to get their next $ million grant form NIH.

I hate writing these choppy usenix style point by point refutation posts. Anyway, I hope you can see why I claim that this is an opinion piece, not science.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Tethler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It travels in small water droplets that are caught by the mask at a high rate. (Yes, it doesn't catch them all).

Isn't the whole danger of a viral infection that even one COVID virion can enter your cells and cause a chain reaction? If so, what is the benefit of a device that only catches some of the particles?

Originally Posted by Tethler

In case you were wondering, i peppered in a good amount of Ad Hominem because: fuck you

I stopped insulting people online when I realized it only made me even more angry (occasionally I relapse; old habits die hard). Now I just kind of watch sadly as we all doublethink ourselves into Mad Max.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Isn't the whole danger of a viral infection that even one COVID virion can enter your cells and cause a chain reaction? If so, what is the benefit of a device that only catches some of the particles?

Yes, but also no.

Viral load, how much of it you are exposed to, will affect the chance of becoming infected.

Think of it as a bunch of level 9 SKs casting disease cloud on a dragon. Unlikely that a single one will land the spell, but if you have enough of them spam casting you can close enough guarantee one cast would eventually get through.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Think of it as a bunch of level 9 SKs casting disease cloud on a dragon. Unlikely that a single one will land the spell, but if you have enough of them spam casting you can close enough guarantee one cast would eventually get through.

Sir, please do not activate my autism with incorrect EverQuest analogies. We both know that no number of L9 SKs can land disease cloud on a dragon due to level caps!

But seriously, I don't think this argument really makes sense. Let's try and walk through this a bit. Every time I go to the grocery store I breathe in air that comes from the lungs of literally hundreds of other people. Every day I breathe in something like a million microorganisms. Let's say that everyone agrees to wear masks (N95s are a different story) and as a result 95% of particles are filtered out. I'm still breathing in 50,000 microorganisms every day. Multiply by 400+ days since the hysteria began and we are still at 20 million microorganisms. Why are we not all sick constantly? Is everyone over the past 100 years idiots for not wearing masks 24/7?

The only logical conclusion to me is that the probabilistic model is wrong. In other words, if you are vulnerable to disease by virtue of being old, obese, or generally unhealthy then you will eventually find a flavor of microorganism that decomposes you. On the other hand, if you are young, fit, and healthy then only possible danger of covid is drowning in a tub of sputum.

Originally Posted by Rudolf Virchow

If I could live my life over again, I would devote it to proving that germs seek their natural habitat-diseased tissue-rather than being the cause of dead tissue. In other words, mosquitoes seek the stagnant water, but do not cause the pool to become stagnant.

Originally Posted by HalflingSpergand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No they are cloth veils with -5 cha, some people think there is a hidden +5 sv disease stat but i dont

http://wiki.project1999.com/Maggot_Ridden_Flesh seems quite accurate with both negative cha and negative disease! Or there is http://wiki.project1999.com/Forsaken_Pariah_Mask . . .

[bomaroast]

Originally Posted by Tethler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dipshits like you are the reason that the virus is still going strong.

Incorrect. The virus is still going strong because it's a virus and that's what they do. No human is to blame.

[G13]

Originally Posted by Tethler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jesus christ, I'm so tired of these idiot threads and the idiots that keep posting them.

It. Does. Not. Matter. That. The. Virus. Is. Smaller. Than. The. Mask.

The virus doesn't fly through the air independently, you fucking mongoloid. It travels in small water droplets that are caught by the mask at a high rate. (Yes, it doesn't catch them all). I'm pretty sure I can get a local chiropractor to sign off of something if that helps, since you like to lean on arguments from people who aren't virologists.

Dipshits like you are the reason that the virus is still going strong.

In case you were wondering, i peppered in a good amount of Ad Hominem because: fuck you

Wow what an idiotic post. You can get off your high horse now.

Even with the masks, aerosol particles smaller in diameter than the holes in the masks remain that can contain the virus. Not to mention the huge gaps on each side of the mask. Have you not seen people wearing them?

Masks don't do anything

It's been a gradual control experiment. Pavlov's dogs.

1) 2 week lock down to flatten the curve
2) Initial mask mandate
3) Vaccine(s)
4) People telling you to double mask and social distance even after having been vaccinated (No Agenda there nah)
5) Vaccine Passport
6) Vaccine ID (can't go to events currently like sports/entertainment venues
7) Eternal Mask Mandate (See Oregon) what's the point of being vaccinated?

But you're stupid if you question any of it right? Like that's supposed to hurt my ego and make me care when Governments are using a pandemic to stomp all over Constitutional Rights?

[Cassawary]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's been a gradual control experiment. Pavlov's dogs.

How is this like Pavlov's dogs, drooler?

[Tethler]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow what an idiotic post. You can get off your high horse now.

Even with the masks, aerosol particles smaller in diameter than the holes in the masks remain that can contain the virus. Not to mention the huge gaps on each side of the mask. Have you not seen people wearing them?

Masks don't do anything

Go look up viral load, you shit stain. If someone spits in your mouth and someone sneezes 5 yards away upwind of you, which instance is more likely to get you sick?

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's been a gradual control experiment. Pavlov's dogs.

1) 2 week lock down to flatten the curve
2) Initial mask mandate
3) Vaccine(s)
4) People telling you to double mask and social distance even after having been vaccinated (No Agenda there nah)
5) Vaccine Passport
6) Vaccine ID (can't go to events currently like sports/entertainment venues
7) Eternal Mask Mandate (See Oregon) what's the point of being vaccinated?

It's not some conspiracy, dumbass. When the previous measures were insufficient, they were strengthened.

I live in Japan, where the population density is waaaay higher than in the US. Even in Tokyo, a city of 20 million people, for most of this pandemic the daily infection rates have been triple digit. The difference between Japan and the US is that people here follow pandemic protocols: masking in public, regular handwashing, and social distancing when possible. And they do it without being forced. Japan's "lockdowns" have all just been requests with no penalty/enforcement. They do it because they aren't a bunch of selfish fucking children.

All of these "useless" masks sure are doing a good job on Japan's trains and subways where people pack in like sardines and a mask in your only defense. If what you said is true, daily cases would skyrocket from the 100 million people that ride the trains here daily.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But you're stupid if you question any of it right?

In your case, yes.

[G13]

Originally Posted by Tethler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Go look up viral load

Not interested in your load man

Sorry to disappoint

[Tethler]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not interested in your load man

Sorry to disappoint

Convenient response to questions you can't answer. I accept your defeat.