ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[derpcake]

GRRM better hurry the fuck up before he rolls over

guess HBO gonna finish the story regardless

to me it seems like a huge lack of passion to let some 3rd party spoil / finish the story because you can't keep up writing, despite being granted a very relaxed pace

fuck that, i bet we have people working on an FBSS harder then he is on the books

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by holahouze [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I need to be careful here, as I'm sure you can dunk slam my logic. I highly doubt he is the real Aegon. While I am skeptical about the Illyrio - Blackfyre connection, if it were true, and fAegon is a Blackfyre, that will not stay hidden. I think he's going to gain some popular support, and he might produce a famous sword. By the time Dany gets to Westeros, it will bring them into conflict. Clearly there would be a lot of obstacles to overcome for there to be another literal dance with dragons. But i like the idea, because those two families bring out the crazy in each other!

so i'll just start at the top. popular belief is that Aegon is a fake, i subscribe to this as well. but i will admit, its a tough pill to swallow. Jon Connington was Rhaegar's best friend and some folks believe Connington had romantic thoughts about Rhaegar as well. Now we have to remember that Connington was exiled before Aegon would have been killed (Connington was exiled during Roberts Rebellion after the incident at the Stoney Sept). we are never sure when Connington could have discovered that Aegon would have survived, although i wouldnt be shocked if Varys played a role there. but then that all begs the question, 'why?'. why would Illyrio and Varys go to such great lengths to help Aegon? it is implied and assumed that the clothes given to Tyrion by Illyrio in season 5 are the former clothes of Aegon from his time with Illyrio. He definitely could produce a missing valyrian steel sword (maybe Blackfyre or Dark Sister (altho its possible the 3 eyed raven has dark sister), or possible the missing Lannister blade of Brightroar). as much as GRRM loves history, and as cyclical as history is, another "dance of the dragons" isnt really possible when only one side has dragons. that said, i really do think its possible for Aegon to be a blackfyre, and i think its possible Aegon and Dany hookup to reunite the greens and the blacks and end the feud once and for all.

[holahouze]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

100% agreed. and while it sucks for Stannis, Mel was indeed shown everything she needed to see to be guided up to north to find Azor Azai.

Stannis was dumb. he really should have found a way to unite with Renly and Rob. Renly maybe might could have been talked down from the ledge.. but maybe not. Baratheons really are stubborn fickle creatures. but yea, essentially 100% agreed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rob + Stannis would have been the match. Had they joined forces and made some headway, there's a chance Renly would have come to his senses. Surely, the timing was off for such a match. Rob's dad was dead, lost track of his sisters, and was vexed by the Lannisters. He also had the Northmen in his ear. Stannis had lost one brother, was betrayed by the other, and was vexed by the Lannister B.S. Plus, he had Melisandre in his ear. And so the story grew.

I was thinking about ASOIAF last night, and the exchanges here, and it is astonishing how many storylines are in play. No damn wonder Martin is so slow. He's probably paralyzed.

[holahouze]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so i'll just start at the top. popular belief is that Aegon is a fake, i subscribe to this as well. but i will admit, its a tough pill to swallow. Jon Connington was Rhaegar's best friend and some folks believe Connington had romantic thoughts about Rhaegar as well. Now we have to remember that Connington was exiled before Aegon would have been killed (Connington was exiled during Roberts Rebellion after the incident at the Stoney Sept). we are never sure when Connington could have discovered that Aegon would have survived, although i wouldnt be shocked if Varys played a role there. but then that all begs the question, 'why?'. why would Illyrio and Varys go to such great lengths to help Aegon? it is implied and assumed that the clothes given to Tyrion by Illyrio in season 5 are the former clothes of Aegon from his time with Illyrio. He definitely could produce a missing valyrian steel sword (maybe Blackfyre or Dark Sister (altho its possible the 3 eyed raven has dark sister), or possible the missing Lannister blade of Brightroar). as much as GRRM loves history, and as cyclical as history is, another "dance of the dragons" isnt really possible when only one side has dragons. that said, i really do think its possible for Aegon to be a blackfyre, and i think its possible Aegon and Dany hookup to reunite the greens and the blacks and end the feud once and for all.

Yeah, I jumped to the bottom. Partly because there is so much unknown and uncertain about Varys's and Illaryio's plans. I'm just not comfortable guessing. So, while its likely they have a card or three up their sleeves, i do think there's conflict ahead between Dany and fAegon. They are both strapped up to go for the throne and rule. I don't see either taking a step back. Both will lose their minds if and when they figure out they've been manipulated, especially Dany (i think). Perhaps its not on the back of dragons (although I like that idea + Dany would have a decided advantage, no?), but I think a Green/Black showdown is in the offing.

[holahouze]

Anybody think Bran still looks 9? He's aging in dog years.

http://winteriscoming.net/2015/12/29...ones-season-6/

[barrettdc1]

I'm at least glad he cut his hair, that long hair with bangs thing he had for the entire show was terribad.

[Spyder73]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and i feel you are over rating Dany's significance greatly. i firmly believe that Dany has a much higher probability of not surviving than jon. albeit, should dany die, it would be in a jesus like sacrifice herself to save all of westeros type of thing. the hard reality is that unless Dornish law becomes westeros law, she can not rule, and would have to marry aegon or jon. if Aegon is real (i dont believe he is) then he has the best claim to the throne. after Aegon, Jon would have the best claim to the throne. and after both Aegon, and Jon, then comes Dany's claim. she's third in line (4th if you still count stannis). i see her as the ultimate piece mover, as her actions will dictate so many other people's actions. but lil more than that. i simply do not see her as the Queen of westeros unless Stannis, Aegon, and Jon are dead (unless she marries Jon or Aegon, but then really they would be ruler and i dont think thats what she wants. Dany is crazy. people choose to ignore it because shes hot. but before the show came out, and she was just a dumb 16 year old girl, i think more people had jon pegged as the prince that was promised.

DISCLAIMER: This got very wall of text very quickly, apologies

Lets examine the facts then. Does Jon Snow fit the prophecy more? or does Danny?

Lets us remember that Maester Agon confirms that high Valeryn has neither masculine or feminine undertones - so while the prophecy is translated as prince, it could be princess as easily as prince. This seems an odd fact to shoe-horn into the book unless there was a POINT to it, does it not?

From the stand point of things making sense, could Danny qualify has hers being "a song of fire and ice"? Well what is a song of fire and ice. From GRRM Fire is love, fire is passion, fire is sexual ardor and all of these things. Ice is betrayal, ice is revenge, ice is… you know, that kind of cold inhumanity and all that stuff is being played out in the books

So from this definition lets examine Danny. Has she loved? Yes, several people in fact. It is a common theme in the book. Sex? Well documented in the books her getting plowed regularly. Passion? Both positive and negative - She was so depressed when her baby and Drogo died that after she was done torturing the witch who killed them she went and jumped into the pyre with them. AHA! She can not be harmed by fire! She fits Fire PERFECTLY.

Ice? Betrayal? First her brother basically sells her as a sex slave to a barbarian horde, then her unborn son was killed to "save" Khal Drogo by a vengeful witch after she finally falls in love with him, She is exiled from the horde with NOTHING but like 5 people, Her captain of the guards then was reporting her activities to the Iron Throne, assassination attempts a plenty, everyone plotting against her constantly...she gets betrayed pretty much at every point where a betrayal is possible, far to many to recant. Revenge? She freed an entire people from slavery, shut down the slave fighting pits, took over half the world already, and killed the woman who essentially murdered her baby and husband.

Oh, SHE HAS 3 MOTHER F#CKING DRAGONS BRO

If Dannys story is not a song of fire and ice then what is? Jon is certainly important and will be revealed as being even more important in the upcoming events of ASOIAF,

But what would be more perfect, more fitting, than Danny taking over the Iron Throne, Jon uniting the North and becoming Lord of Winterfell, and then Danny coming to visit her half brother to make him Hand of the King (or whatever he would be, cousin?). Guess where it would leave us? EXACTLY WHERE WE STARTED WITH ROBERT AND NED, and the cycle continues.

I leave you with GRRM thoughts on people figuring out his plot.

“I want to surprise and delight my reader and take them in directions they didn’t see coming. But I can’t change the plans… So many readers were reading the books with so much attention that they were throwing up some theories and while some of those theories were amusing bulls**t and creative, some of the theories are right. At least one or two readers had put together the extremely subtle and obscure clues that I’d planted in the books and came to the right solution… So what do I do then? Do I change it?! I wrestled with that issue and I came to the conclusion that changing it would be a disaster, because the clues were there. You can’t do that, so I’m just going to go ahead. Some of my readers who don’t read the [online fan] boards, which thankfully there are hundreds of thousands of them, will still be surprised and other readers will say: ‘See, I said that four years ago, I’m smarter than you guys’.”

he is pot committed on Danny - she has come from nothing and is about to ascend to the top of the top - this has been the point of the entire series and people are realizing it now

[Spyder73]

Maybe we can at least to agree that either Jon or Danny with end up being the series hero. Seems pretty clear cut at this point. And honestly they will probably have to work together or even get married, the Targeryans were incestial.

[holahouze]

Originally Posted by barrettdc1 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm at least glad he cut his hair, that long hair with bangs thing he had for the entire show was terribad.

Who do you think his barber is in that cave? Bloodraven? Meera? Hodor?

I like terribad. I'm going to use it, if you don't mind.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Spyder73 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DISCLAIMER: This got very wall of text very quickly, apologies

words

ok lets go one at a time

Lets us remember that Maester Agon confirms that high Valeryn has neither masculine or feminine undertones - so while the prophecy is translated as prince, it could be princess as easily as prince. This seems an odd fact to shoe-horn into the book unless there was a POINT to it, does it not?

i took this as a red herring and nothing more. i believe GRRM has flipflopped quite a few times on how things play out.

From the stand point of things making sense, could Danny qualify has hers being "a song of fire and ice"? Well what is a song of fire and ice. From GRRM Fire is love, fire is passion, fire is sexual ardor and all of these things. Ice is betrayal, ice is revenge, ice is… you know, that kind of cold inhumanity and all that stuff is being played out in the books

does the relationship between R&L not fit this description perfectly? not to mention the extra added flavor of Stark and Targ, Winter & Summer, Snow & Fire. ice is... cold humanity? trying growing up as Neds bastard in Winterfell around Cat.

Ice? Betrayal? First her brother basically sells her as a sex slave to a barbarian horde, then her unborn son was killed to "save" Khal Drogo by a vengeful witch after she finally falls in love with him, She is exiled from the horde with NOTHING but like 5 people, Her captain of the guards then was reporting her activities to the Iron Throne, assassination attempts a plenty, everyone plotting against her constantly...she gets betrayed pretty much at every point where a betrayal is possible, far to many to recant. Revenge? She freed an entire people from slavery, shut down the slave fighting pits, took over half the world already, and killed the woman who essentially murdered her baby and husband.
So from this definition lets examine Danny. Has she loved? Yes, several people in fact. It is a common theme in the book. Sex? Well documented in the books her getting plowed regularly. Passion? Both positive and negative - She was so depressed when her baby and Drogo died that after she was done torturing the witch who killed them she went and jumped into the pyre with them. AHA! She can not be harmed by fire! She fits Fire PERFECTLY.

actually, Dany can be hurt by fire. sure she has a higher tolerance, but im pretty sure Mirri's blood magic is the only reason Dany walked out of that pyre in season1/book1. also, Targs arent fire proof. every single thing you say dany has, i can argue for jon via Ygritte or Arya.

Dany physically owns dragons, but she has no control of them. dragon riders bond with their dragon, no rider can bond with more than 1. which means in all probability Jon will also have a dragon.

again, by westeros law, Dany can not rule legally. GRRM (as you say in your quote) LOVES to surprise and shock readers, and i think that it being so obvious about Dany makes her a red herring. i think shes one of the 3 dragon heads, and possible our sacrificial lamb, and maybe the wife to the king of westeros. but nothing more than that. i dont see Dany sitting the iron throne.

Jon is literally the only character in the story with plot armor.