Necromancers Versus Magicians As Soloers

[Noselacri]

Pets are not meant to be great tanks, especially not at lower levels. They're supposed to be just able to tank a blue con while the caster nukes/dots it down. If mage pet are power-leveling their owners and single-handedly killing exp mobs with ease, something is absolutely wrong.

[Itchybottom]

Originally Posted by Noselacri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pets are not meant to be great tanks, especially not at lower levels. They're supposed to be just able to tank a blue con while the caster nukes/dots it down. If mage pet are power-leveling their owners and single-handedly killing exp mobs with ease, something is absolutely wrong.

At lower levels I had to heal my ass off on the pet. If I went the nuking route (aside from rains, and praying the pet had enough taunt) I'd be a goner. It's not /pet attack and instant win until 50, and usually only against <level 41. For a mage any how.

[Bubbles]

I can think of one encounter in all of classic where a necro would even consider chain summoning a pet.

Seriously, a necro can kill most blues with 490 mana without wasting extra bone chips.

[Rasterburn]

The answer to the question posed in this thread is relatively simple...

Necromancers are hands-down the most overpowered solo class in the game. I would place wizards in second place (yes, I am serious). Third place would go to druids, who are only a tiny bit behind wizards. Fourth place would go to mages.

Yes, I have played all of the above classes, at one point or another. My main... back in the old days... was a necro. My new main on P99 is likewise a necro, so I speak from experience.

What many of you are not realizing is the fact that there are a lot more things to consider when soloing than the simple DPS that you do. To be a powerful solo class, you also need to be as self-sufficient as possible. Mages fail on that point.

So far as necros go, there is essentially nothing that they can not do all by themselves... except port. They can heal themselves, buff themselves, and they have their own mana regen buffs which rival anything available from a chanter. If they get into hot water, then they can FD right there on the spot and lose aggro. If they die, then they can locate and resurrect their own corpse. If they die at the bottom of some hellish dungeon, then they can summon their own corpse without having to do a grueling CR (which is why most necros keep a stack of reagents in the bank). They have invisibility spells which work against living and undead mobs alike. They can also charm undead mobs and turn them into a pet. In a group, they can heal other players (one-shot and/or HoT pacts) and they can also donate their mana (hence the term "mana battery" for necros on raids). So far as damage goes, their total DPS (both pet and DoT's) rivals that of ANY other class (note that the term "rivals" does not mean "equals"). Their ability to snare and fear mobs, or do the reverse and aggro kite them, enables the necro to solo an uber-mob that would slaughter any normal mage. Or just about any other class, for that matter. If it doesn't summon -- and if the necro has enough mana -- then he or she can solo it. And they do.

So when I consider the question of "best solo class," I'm going to factor in ALL of those different abilities... not just the DPS of my pet. Necros can do it all, without any outside help. Mages, on the other hand, would need a slew of potions and buffs donated by other classes, before they could hope to approach all of the innate abilities of the necro class. And mages still can't heal themselves, if things get out of hand.

All things considered, a necro is the best solo class. No comparison. They were designed that way by Verant.

As for which class can level up the fastest solo..? I'll give that award to the wizzies. Between their high-speed quads and being able to port all over the known world instantly, nobody else can match their XP-per-hour. Druids would be a very close second, in that regard.

[Wenai]

Ohh man do I love this topic.

I played a Necromancer and a Shaman as my mains on live. I had access to an account with a max level magician (60 during kunark/velious and 65 during pop etc). I know both sides of the fence quite well.

In my opinion there is no comparison between a Necromancer and a Magician. As already mentioned in the thread by Qaedin, the only thing a mage can do in a sticky situation is gate. All you can do is abandon ship and leave. That leaves magician as such a limited and handicapped class it isn't even funny.

In a similar situation a necromancer can:

-Root
-Mez
-Fear (outdoors)
-Snare and kite adds (outdoors)
-Feign Death
-Invulnerability
-Heal themselves with Lifetap
-Oh ... and Gate.

Necromancer is so versatile compared to a magician it isn't even funny. The problem with arguing with mages is that their response is always, "Well my pet is better!" or "My pet tanks better!". In an outdoor experience zone.. that is irrelevant because a necromancer pet never has to take damage. Whether you are fear kiting, aggro kiting.. whatever.. your pet never has to take damage.

In an indoor zone, unless the magician is like 20 levels above the content, they are going to have a difficult time breaking rooms. Wheras a necromancer can break two spawns with no effort (Screaming terror one and pull the other). Larger spawn groups are more difficult to break, but doable thanks to FD.

The biggest thing, in my opinion, that makes necromancers far more attractive than a magician, I haven't even touched on yet. That is their mana regeneration rate. Magicians have absolutely NO ABILITY to regen mana (no I don't consider pet-canni and mod rodding yourself mana regeneration). Level 49 Necromancer Lich trades 22 Health for 20 Mana. Clarity gives you 9 Mana per tick. It gives you over twice the amount that Clarity gives you.

Necros can snare, root, fear, mez, feign, invulnerability, heal themselves, heal others, use a pet, etc etc etc etc.

Mages can cast pets and cast nukes.

Oh.. speaking of nukes.

Ignite Blood does 1176 Damage for 250 Mana. That is 4.70 Damage/Mana. (Necro best DoT I think?)

Ignite Bones does 500 Damage for 210 Mana. That is 2.38 Damage/Mana. (Necro best DD)


For Mages:

Lava Bolt does 810 Damage for 300 Mana. That is 2.70 Damage per Mana.


The only benefit Magician has over necromancer in terms of dealing damgae, is the ability to deal damage more quickly. Their damage is much less efficient, combined with their lack of mana regeneration.


With all that being said.. Magicians are not gimp. They are great soloers, just compared to a Necromancer.. in my opinion there is no comparison.

[krforrester]

I have to agree that Necros are better soloers in most situations. The areas where a mage is better is in a tight dungeon crawl without a lot of roamers. However, if things go south, the mage gates whereas the necro FD's and tries again.

[NostalgicGuy]

Originally Posted by Rasterburn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The answer to the question posed in this thread is relatively simple...

Necromancers are hands-down the most overpowered solo class in the game.

What many of you are not realizing is the fact that there are a lot more things to consider when soloing than the simple DPS that you do.

So far as necros go, there is essentially nothing that they can not do all by themselves... except port.

+1

This is the truth. A magician can out-dps a necro for a while, then runs out of mana. I played a mage in original in 1999, and gradually lost that feeling of power as I levelled up, and eventually grew to be in awe of necros.

Mage pet dies = magician gates or dies. Necro pet dies = snare, fear, root, stun, shadowstep, harmshield, heal, feign.

Necromancer over time = a lot more efficient as well.

Given some room, or against undead, a necro can do some crazy stuff.

Also, as a diff example, I remember losing our healer in the Fungi King area in Old Sebilis - our necro took over and kept the group alive and killing! Some extremely impressive play from a necro.

Necros were probably the most misunderstood class in the game in my experience. (maybe 'cause no group wanted them/they always out soloing).

One thing though, playing a necro well/efficiently is a hell of a lot of work compared to most other classes (16 spell slots wouldn't go amiss).

[Noselacri]

Well, that's how it's meant to be, I think everyone realizes this. The problem would be what some previous poster described: low-level mage pets having max-level DS and abnormal regen. If that's true, it's a bug and should be fixed.

[Humwawa]

I don't understand the necro / mage argument crap.

A mage is a wizard who sacrificed mobility, more involved control, and diversity in nuke types in return for the ability to summon objects (a mod rod) and a strong pet.

A necro is a utility class with high durability, multiple forms of crowd control, efficient damage in the form of dots, various health/mana conversions, and a pet (the Dot with Health, as I call him).

Anything you need to know can be derived from this.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Rasterburn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As for which class can level up the fastest solo..? I'll give that award to the wizzies. Between their high-speed quads and being able to port all over the known world instantly, nobody else can match their XP-per-hour. Druids would be a very close second, in that regard.

I really don't buy it. You'd have to tell me about those elite quad-kiting locations in the old world that will make 29-50 fast enough as to outpace as easy as it is for necros/mages to solo from 1-50 generally.

Guess how long it takes a wizard to even get from 1-29 vs a mage/necro...